We use cookies to show content based on your preferences. If you continue to browse you accept their use and installation. More information. >

FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board
The place to share your mineralogical experiences


Spanish message board






Newest topics and users posts
28 Mar-09:37:50 Re: 2 unknowns co-occurring with caledonite, grand reef mine, az (Cfrench58)
27 Mar-19:47:08 Re: 2 unknowns co-occurring with caledonite, grand reef mine, az (Pete Richards)
27 Mar-16:15:44 Re: 2 unknowns co-occurring with caledonite, grand reef mine, az (Cfrench58)
27 Mar-15:18:59 Re: 2 unknowns co-occurring with caledonite, grand reef mine, az (Alfredo)
27 Mar-14:39:29 2 unknowns co-occurring with caledonite, grand reef mine, az (Cfrench58)
27 Mar-05:21:48 Re: the mim museum in beirut, lebanon (Mim Museum)
27 Mar-05:03:26 Re: trying to find information on rose/pink quartz and tourmaline associations. (Ning)
27 Mar-02:39:50 Re: the mim museum in beirut, lebanon (Tobi)
27 Mar-00:23:28 Re: collection of volkmar stingl (Volkmar Stingl)
26 Mar-00:53:41 Re: collection of volkmar stingl (Volkmar Stingl)
25 Mar-13:32:10 Re: collection of michael shaw (Michael Shaw)
25 Mar-00:25:58 The mizunaka collection - quartz (Am Mizunaka)
23 Mar-13:35:22 Re: collection of firmo espinar (Firmo Espinar)
22 Mar-08:32:28 Re: collection of michael shaw (Michael Shaw)
22 Mar-04:20:41 Re: the mim museum in beirut, lebanon (Mim Museum)
21 Mar-22:49:19 Re: green seam. Looks like it in a state of decay. (Ning)
21 Mar-22:47:40 Re: green seam. Looks like it in a state of decay. (Ning)
21 Mar-22:45:25 Re: green seam. Looks like it in a state of decay. (Ning)
21 Mar-15:34:23 Re: the mizunaka collection - quartz (Am Mizunaka)
21 Mar-14:35:08 Re: jim’s mineral collection (Jim Wilkinson)
21 Mar-14:15:36 The 4th phoenix heritage mineral show (phms) hosted by mineralogical society of arizona (m (Chris Whitney-smith)
21 Mar-04:36:10 Re: the mizunaka collection (Tobi)
21 Mar-04:11:47 Re: jim’s mineral collection (James Catmur)
20 Mar-23:34:15 The mizunaka collection - quartz (Am Mizunaka)
20 Mar-18:13:16 Re: jim’s mineral collection (Jim Wilkinson)

For lists of newest topics and postings click here


RSS RSS

View unanswered posts

Why and how to register

Index Index
 FAQFAQ RegisterRegister  Log inLog in
 {Forgotten your password?}Forgotten your password?  

Like
111802


The time now is Mar 28, 2024 13:54

Search for a textSearch for a text   

A general guide for using the Forum with some rules and tips
The information provided within this Forum about localities is only given to allow reference to them. Any visit to any of the localities requires you to obtain full permission and relevant information prior to your visit. FMF is strictly against any illicit activities related to collecting minerals.
Corundum var. Sapphire and Ruby from same locality
  
  Index -> Minerals and Mineralogy
Like


View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message

MSrockhound




Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Posts: 11
Location: Mississippi

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Feb 23, 2014 23:26    Post subject: Corundum var. Sapphire and Ruby from same locality  

At my local gem and mineral show this weekend I picked up two specimens of corundum labeled as being from Ilmen Mts, South Urals, Russia.

However, the sapphire appears to be on a feldspar matrix while the other is maybe quartz or dolomite? I have yet to run scratch tests as I'm nervous because they are brand new specimens so I'm not sure if the black on the ruby specimen is some hornblende, amphibole, biotite, or schorl. The matrix may not even be quartz.

My questions are as follows:

1. Is the ruby from the labeled locality? I have my suspicions its not

2. Would it be possible for ruby and sapphire to occur at the same locality, in different strata?

Theoretically yes I suppose but the likelihood of two strata of very different host rock displaying different grades of metamorphism would having both varieties of corundum seems unlikely in one area.

3. I understand there are also samples of bi-colored corundum displaying both red and blue, are those half sapphire or ruby?

4. Where might my ruby sample be from? India or Thailand?

Thank you for any and all help!

A Curious Undergrad,
Chris K.



IMG_1162.JPG
 Description:
Corundum
Ilmen Mts, South Urals, Russia
Main Crystals 1 cm x 1 cm
Corundums in Question
 Viewed:  20173 Time(s)

IMG_1162.JPG


Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

GneissWare




Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1287
Location: California


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Feb 24, 2014 00:20    Post subject: Re: Corundum var. Sapphire and Ruby from same locality  

The blue one looks right for the Ilmen locality. The ruby looks right for Mysore District, Karnataka, India locality.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

gemlover




Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 211
Location: Easley, SC


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Feb 24, 2014 02:21    Post subject: Re: Corundum var. Sapphire and Ruby from same locality  

Yes, ruby and sapphire can occur in the same locality. Check out the geology of Franklin, NC (natural ruby and sapphire mines) then that trends NE to the Hiddenite NC area (emeralds).

john

_________________
John
John Atwell Rasmussen, Ph.D.. AJP
Geologist and Gemologist
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

alex chaus




Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 22
Location: FSU


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Feb 24, 2014 03:07    Post subject: Re: Corundum var. Sapphire and Ruby from same locality  

MSrockhound wrote:
...My questions are as follows:

1. Is the ruby from the labeled locality? I have my suspicions its not

2. Would it be possible for ruby and sapphire to occur at the same locality, in different strata?

Theoretically yes I suppose but the likelihood of two strata of very different host rock displaying different grades of metamorphism would having both varieties of corundum seems unlikely in one area.

3. I understand there are also samples of bi-colored corundum displaying both red and blue, are those half sapphire or ruby?

4. Where might my ruby sample be from? India or Thailand?...

I have similar specimens from Ural mountains, but blue corundum is from the South Ural (Ilmen State mineralogical reserved area) and occurs in pegmatite plagioclase veins. Violet-red one is from Polar Ural region (no more details available) occurs in biotite-phlogopite rock.
Alex
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Peter




Joined: 16 Jan 2009
Posts: 346
Location: Sweden / Luxembourg

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Feb 24, 2014 05:12    Post subject: Re: Corundum var. Sapphire and Ruby from same locality  

The sapphire is indeed form one of the pematites in the Ilmen mountains. I do not have my litterature here but if my memore is corect this is from pegmatite 298.

The ruby is from Khit Ostrov (Khit Island) in the White Sea, Karelia, northwestern Russia, just south of the Kola Peninsula.
Best regards Peter
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Riccardo Modanesi




Joined: 07 Nov 2011
Posts: 618
Location: Milano

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Feb 24, 2014 05:48    Post subject: Re: Corundum var. Sapphire and Ruby from same locality  

Hi to everybody!
John, as an example, as you know very well, ruby and sapphire may occur not only in the same locality (i.e. plenty of mines in Madagascar, Sri Lanka etc.), but also in the SAME CRYSTAL!!! Mong Hsu rubies have a sapphire core, which is erased by heat treatment. Winza (Tanzania) corundums contain often both a red and a blue part! Then I am not astonished at all if the two crystals shown here are from the same locality.
Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.

_________________
Hi! I'm a collector of minerals since 1973 and a gemmologist. On Summer I always visit mines and quarries all over Europe looking for minerals! Ok, there is time to tell you much much more! Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Roger Warin




Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 1171


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Feb 24, 2014 08:09    Post subject: Re: Corundum var. Sapphire and Ruby from same locality  

Hello,
Pure corundum (aluminum oxide Al2O3 formula) is completely colorless. However, it may take multiple colors from a transition metal replaces aluminum in the structure.

Ruby is red because of the presence of Chrome cations Cr3 +.
When corundum contains Fe3 + , it becomes yellow sapphire (without titanium).
The blue sapphires are due to the presence of pairs of charge transfer (with light excitation) between cations Fe2 + - Ti4 + or Fe 2 + - Fe 3 +.
Finally green sapphires are obtained by mixing blue and yellow.

Roger.



Corindon#1_R.jpg
 Description:
Corindon
Zazafotsy, Ihosy, Madagascar
40 mm wide
two colors in the same crystal
 Viewed:  20229 Time(s)

Corindon#1_R.jpg



Corindon#2_R.jpg
 Description:
Corundum
Zazafotsy, Ihosy, Madagascar
45 mm high
rubis from the same mine.
 Viewed:  19987 Time(s)

Corindon#2_R.jpg


Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

John S. White
Site Admin



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1295
Location: Stewartstown, Pennsylvania, USA


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Feb 24, 2014 08:19    Post subject: Re: Corundum var. Sapphire and Ruby from same locality  

I would add that the matrix for the blue corundum cannot be quartz because corundum and quartz cannot co-exist.
_________________
John S. White
aka Rondinaire
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

MSrockhound




Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Posts: 11
Location: Mississippi

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Feb 24, 2014 12:25    Post subject: Re: Corundum var. Sapphire and Ruby from same locality  

Yes I agree about the quarts but the ruby specimen I hadn't had a chance to test yet and the white crystals were too small to see their habit without magnification. The sapphire is most definitely on a felspar matrix as there are several well terminated crystals in it.

I believe alex chauss hit the nail on the head, it appears to be almost a perfect match for the Polar Ural locality according to mindat pictures of a similar piece.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Peter




Joined: 16 Jan 2009
Posts: 346
Location: Sweden / Luxembourg

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Feb 24, 2014 16:14    Post subject: Re: Corundum var. Sapphire and Ruby from same locality  

Geeees

Khit Ostrov https://www.mindat.org/gallery.php?loc=4436&min=1136


Polar Ural has a locality Rai-Iz where very beautiful red ruby occur and they have a very strong deep color, different morphology and different matrix.

Believe whatever you like ;)
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

ACC79




Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 20
Location: Ural.

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Sep 15, 2014 04:48    Post subject: Re: Corundum var. Sapphire and Ruby from same locality  

This link with Rai-Iz ruby specimens: https://www.webmineral.ru/deposits/gallery.php?id=76&filter=2158&gallerymode=full
This link with Khit Ostrov ruby specimens https://webmineral.ru/deposits/item.php?id=7
(links normalized by FMF)
PS better late than never ;-)
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   
Display posts from previous:   
   Index -> Minerals and Mineralogy   All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1
    

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


All pictures, text, design © Forum FMF 2006-2024


Powered by FMF