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A general guide for using the Forum with some rules and tips
Ex so and so’s collection
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lluis




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PostPosted: Aug 10, 2017 13:40    Post subject: Re: Ex so and so’s collection  

Good afternoon, Peter

Well, to me stock options market is just gambling...
If anyone wish to play, well, odds are that he will lose....
That depend on each one and oh his/her/their financial recourses....

Price of a bulb on this time was the price that people wished to pay for. Then. one day, no one wished to pay such, panic, crush and crisis... Maybe I remember something similar not so many years ago, in buildings/flats and so?
And same from many years ago in roman times with a crisis like the one we are/have suffering/ed....
In a hobby, price is the one people wish to pay for.
And, if my memory serves me still well, Mr. Conklin said in MR that if a mineral is sold, it is because it is still priced too low.... (I have pieces from Mr. Conklin... Besides, paid very reasonably. Not sold to me by him... By another dealer...)
I have two Poldevaartites (I had three; one was gifted...) Poldevaartites, not olmiites. Very nice all... The two first ones I paid around 200€ each one. Third, bigger, later bought (around 20 years later) and nicer, just cost me 30Euros.... Ah, and that last with provenance!

Market is as is...

With best wishes

Lluís
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texasdigger




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PostPosted: Aug 10, 2017 17:25    Post subject: Re: Ex so and so’s collection  

I do not think value should be significantly affected by provenance however I really enjoy knowing the provenance of minerals I have purchased. Most of the time you get nothing more than a fresh label, no big deal. Occasionally you get a unique, old label. Even rarer when you get the full provenance. I like it a lot. Occasionally you can track the collector and there are good stories to be read about certain mineralogist, collectors, shop owners or all the above together. I always ask for any older labels and expect them if they exist when Im purchasing a specimen. I dont like to give my old labels up either but I feel its part of the deal when you sell a specimen. This is one of my favorite provenance sets.


P8101315.JPG
 Mineral: old Labels for a sapphire
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SteveB




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PostPosted: Aug 10, 2017 22:46    Post subject: Re: Ex so and so’s collection  

Roger Warin wrote:
To talk about the King of minerals, the diamond, what a great story that links the French Blue from Tavernier to the Hope !.

True and just many of us have such a singular specimen in our possession? Nobody cares about second place let alone the "interesting" piece of quartz we found in the trailer load of river stones we had delivered to cover our garden beds. I dont give a toss who i bought a specimen from only that it was accurately represented. Where it came from and who actually found it in/on the ground I think should remain with the information of a spcimen , not the names of everyone who fondles it.. None of them are important and none of us are important. Besides its unprovable information , at least location can be reasonably confirmed and in few cases radiometrically proven. But ownership offers nothing other than point to the idiot who damaged or badly repaired a specimen.
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John S. White
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PostPosted: Aug 11, 2017 05:32    Post subject: Re: Ex so and so’s collection  

I am delighted by all of the responses. Perhaps my use of "appalled" was a little too strong, "troubled" would have been better. And I want to make very clear that records of a mineral's provenance are important and should be preserved. I will also agree that there can be special circumstances where adding "Ex so and so's collection" is appropriate.

If this discussion results in fewer Ex's in photo captions I feel that is a very good development.

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markbeckett




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PostPosted: Aug 11, 2017 06:31    Post subject: Re: Ex so and so’s collection  

Hi There! I must say that here in CORNWALL UK (at least), if you're a systematic type thinker, precise location, former 'find date' and 'who's collection' from before, are, ALL VERY IMPORTANT DATA, for ...say..even the value of a specimen. I will never buy a specimen from an unknown locality (btw I only collect Cornwall), even if it's a nice one. In Cornwall there are more different minerals/species, specimens than almost anywhere globally, for it's size! (please correct me if I'm wrong) and to ME (at least) this requires and deserves a complete sustainment of full data sets for every single mineral specimen within my collection.

As far as as 'collector labels' go - it helps US very much to recognise or even 'marvel' at the exuberence of past collectors.Whole 'stories' are linked to many of the finds, locations, history, and even social mobility. Many of the great Cornwall collectors are/were individually known to have been associated with the various specimen resources that have become available over time. For instance, I have recently been aquiring a of lot specimens from the old (1930s- 2015...I think) Jim Knight Collection - it has been such an experience to witness the deconstruction of such a wonderful collection; but, as it happens, I recently found out that Knight was in close association with the 'famous?)(RIP) Dick Barstow. The collection is a huge hoard of interesting, fine, unusual eclectics and Very special specimens. I, reallly like His stuff! Where would I be withought his beautifully,and logic/systematic labelling ability?. Most of his stuff, for instance, to me, is worth more than any money could buy - and I will only 'pass these on' on the logical, deconstruction of my collection (I have no children or direct family who would appreciate them), so leaving them behind would without any stewardship would be anathema to me. Importantly - there are collector labels with well over two thirds of my collection, with my notes etc that will always accompany every secimen that I will eventually sell. Collector labels, for me at least can be up to a good third of the value of what I may pay for a the piece...also there have been the inevitable, unscrupulous individuals that have falsified specimen info, criminally, that have been identified within the 'industry' over time - BYTHEIR LABELS.

I only collect Cornwall - so I'm very sorry if I have offended anyone else's motives/abilities and any other facets of our wonderful hobby :-)

Thanks v much for reading me, Best Regards - MARK BECKETT

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'if you see a strange hill, go and prospect there'...(KFG Hosking)
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Jesse Fisher




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PostPosted: Aug 11, 2017 14:15    Post subject: Re: Ex so and so’s collection  

I suspect that John is alternately troubled and appalled by (and I'm sure he will correct me if I'm wrong) the current fashion amongst those who adhere to the current paradigm of collecting almost exclusively according to aesthetic (rather than scientific or historic) criteria to cite like-minded collectors who may have formerly owned the piece in question. Being the social creatures that we are, this perhaps fulfills a need to have "bragging rights" about something one has acquired.

Personally, I'm much more likely to crow about having acquired a nice specimen from an obscure and long closed mine in Northern England that has a hand-written label from Arthur Russell dated 1925, than about which one of my contemporary collectors may have owned the specimen last year. But we all do this collecting thing for our own personal reasons. To each their own.
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Turbo




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PostPosted: Aug 15, 2017 17:34    Post subject: Re: Ex so and so’s collection  

I agree with almost everyone that it is unnecessary in publication unless the article is about that person's collection. For record keeping, I love provenance sets. I'm a specialist, so I like knowing when a specimen came out and what find or pocket it was part of, and labels often help fitting a specimen in the timeline. It's also nice to be able to contact previous owners for further details. It matters to me if a specimen was rare for 1970 but not rare for 2012. To me, there are so many details that can affect value and collectibility, that if known, could change the game. That's why I pay close attention to material coming out of the Viburnum Trend and try to learn as much as I can about older material. At the same time, it is easy to get carried away. There may be a handful of specimens coming out of an idle locality that are nothing special esthetically, but should they be worth a lot because they are rare? Probably not. But a small find that is the best material in the last two decades may be worth something.

I'm also trying to help prevent specimens from the Viburnum Trend from suffering the same locality lumping problem as Tri-State. Pretty soon many of those mines are going to be connected.
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