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New Zealand alpine minerals?
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Philippe Durand




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PostPosted: Aug 12, 2017 14:25    Post subject: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Does anyone know if alpine clefts and so minerals exist in the New Zealand mountains ?
Quartz and fluorite, particularly, or any other type of mineralogical context in these mountains ?

I have never heard or read about it, but if you consider these great mountains, minerals are likely to be found.
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PostPosted: Aug 12, 2017 17:53    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Alpine-type veins are typical of tightly folded metamorphic rocks, which are usually present in mountain ranges formed by continental collision, ie the Alps, Himalayas, Urals, Pyrenees, Appalachians. The "Pacific Rim" is mostly not conducive to this type of geology, for the most part.
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PostPosted: Aug 12, 2017 19:35    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Except of course That's exactly how New Zealand was formed, check facts please before offering unqualified and useless opinion. NZ is on the Alpine Fault between the Pacific and the Australian plates.

Yes NZ is full of quartz veins including areas of metals such as gold and has its own jade-like Greenstone. Its South Island has extensive granite deposits and yes fluorite/barite deposits too.

There are extensive varieties of minerals in New Zealand but being predominantly forested and protectted finding is not easy. Digging especially not allowed except in few locations, most of the native wildlife is endangered so they are not keen on people showing up and destroying the environment.
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alfredo
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PostPosted: Aug 12, 2017 20:32    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Steve, you're confusing two different questions, or one question with two parts. The first, which I was answering, was about the existence of alpine-type veins in New Zealand and the second was about minerals in general in New Zealand, specifically mentioning fluorite. Yes, we all know New Zealand has lots of minerals, including nice fluorites - You can see photos of some on Mindat: https://www.mindat.org/gallery.php?loc=15576&min=1576 - but those have no connection to alpine veins.

And much of New Zealand's collision history is that between a continent (Australia) and an oceanic plate (the Pacific), not two continents, which is what you need for the classic alpine-type vein development for the other mountain ranges I listed. And the Alpine Fault in the South Island shows mostly right lateral (horizontal) movement, like the San Andreas fault in California, no connection to alpine-type veins.

Yes, there may well be some meager development of alpine-type veins in the Southern Alps but, because of the lack of the classic tectonic environment for such veins, one can expect them to be quite impoverished compared to the alpine veins in the European Alps, Urals, Himalayas, etc. New Zealand's mineral riches come from other types of environments.
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SteveB




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PostPosted: Aug 12, 2017 23:24    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Perhaps a contextual difference in our education then. NZ is bloody crinkly and on appearance pretty similar to european Alps and asian Himalayas. Also in the context of the original questions , yes there is much mineral wealth in New Zealand mountains, perhaps the reason why so little is heard is its not exploited.unlike other areas where the natives were enslaved or underpaid to mine for wealth of civilised nations, The maoris of NZ would just smash the skull of anyone trying that sort of behaviour and when civilsation did arrive it was the natural riches of the islands that it had going for it. Plus such a distance for ships to travel on the possibility of wealth. By the time an invading force arrived there they would be weak and sick from the journey and from the beach all of NZ is uphill with large stocky native warriors to contend with. Was little profit at the time. similarly Papua New Guinea has its dificulties with rainforest mountains and has mining riches that have been hard founght to mine. Think about war movies, combat fought in jungle locations is treacherous, no nice paved roads and trails to follow whereas the Americas came with legends of el dorado and promises of vast easy wealth in lost cities. New Zealand and the like had no such city cultures with the native inhabitants and there personal signs of wealth were rare shell and feathers rather than the gemstones westoners would look for. You also have these cultures who havent developed metallurgy unlinke european cultures where trade of goods and knowledge was easier to spread so Moaris didnt go digging everywhere looking for iron ore before white men arrived only a few hundred years ago. Without the local knowledge the white man had to make the journey and go look, possibly against the wishes of the locals....so too hard basket? Its not that its unkonown if NZ has minerals its more a matter of access to its surface that much of it is still pristine so litlle is known for certain and not as hyped as other areas with more accessibility and so more visitors to spread the word.

I'm more inclined to contemplatesome of the newer volcanic landforms around around japan and what may have been brought up from the mantle .
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Philippe Durand




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PostPosted: Aug 13, 2017 01:22    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Thank you both :)

I will try to summarize.

So, I understand that there are not any Alpine clefts; but a lot of minerals exist surely but they are not extracted, because the lack of mines, or people searching for them.
History and Culture are the main reasons.

And on Mindat there is not a wealth of minerals if you compare to other countries. So there is room here for discoveries in the future
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Matt_Zukowski
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PostPosted: Aug 13, 2017 01:29    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Steve: IMHO, you should apologize to Alfredo. He most certainly did not need to "check facts please before offering unqualified and useless opinion." I think that any reasonable reading of the original post is that the question is whether NZ has alpine cleft geology, the kind that produces the lovely quartz and fluorite that comes out of alpine clefts. Alfredo's answer to this question was both qualified and useful, as is always the case with Alfredo.
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PostPosted: Aug 13, 2017 02:20    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Matt_Zukowski wrote:
Steve: IMHO, you should apologize to Alfredo. He most certainly did not need to "check facts please before offering unqualified and useless opinion." [...] Alfredo's answer to this question was both qualified and useful, as is always the case with Alfredo.
Also in MY humble opinion you should apologize, for that is actually not the way we talk to each other here on FMF :-(
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vic rzonca




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PostPosted: Aug 13, 2017 06:55    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Matt_Zukowski wrote:
Steve: IMHO, you should apologize to Alfredo. He most certainly did not need to "check facts please before offering unqualified and useless opinion." I think that any reasonable reading of the original post is that the question is whether NZ has alpine cleft geology, the kind that produces the lovely quartz and fluorite that comes out of alpine clefts. Alfredo's answer to this question was both qualified and useful, as is always the case with Alfredo.

Agreed. Alfredo is hardly unqualified and his posts are always useful and informative. This forum remains civilized, polite and informative, let us not act as trolls. Remember, respect is a virtue. We will exercise it.
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PostPosted: Aug 13, 2017 07:06    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

vic rzonca wrote:
Matt_Zukowski wrote:
Steve: IMHO, you should apologize to Alfredo. He most certainly did not need to "check facts please before offering unqualified and useless opinion." I think that any reasonable reading of the original post is that the question is whether NZ has alpine cleft geology, the kind that produces the lovely quartz and fluorite that comes out of alpine clefts. Alfredo's answer to this question was both qualified and useful, as is always the case with Alfredo.

Agreed. Alfredo is hardly unqualified and his posts are always useful and informative. This forum remains civilized, polite and informative, let us not act as trolls. Remember, respect is a virtue. We will exercise it.

My two cents:

Although I love Alfredo so much and I consider him a reference fo almost everything related with the Geology & Mineralogy (except for nice minerals ;-) ;-) ;-) I believe that the Internet and Chats language create frequently a kind of "language-little-educated" situations. Reading the (very polite) answer of Alfredo and the re-answer from Steve I believe that both are tuned and both will love to continue their chats without mutual offense.

Just my opinion after over 10 years (trying to) moderate two large mineral Forums… ;-)
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PostPosted: Aug 13, 2017 07:30    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

I find it strange that the inhabitants of NZ seem to have very little interest in finding out what secrets (minerals) these mountains hold.
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PostPosted: Aug 13, 2017 11:42    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Pierre Joubert wrote:
I find it strange that the inhabitants of NZ seem to have very little interest in finding out what secrets (minerals) these mountains hold.


Hello Pierre,

Perhaps the inhabitants of NZ know what is there, eg gold, but have learned from reading about The Black Hills Gold Rush in the Dakota Territory in the 1887 United States.

Hi to Riana.

Regards,

Don

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Don Lum




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PostPosted: Aug 13, 2017 11:49    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Jordi Fabre wrote:
vic rzonca wrote:
Matt_Zukowski wrote:
Steve: IMHO, you should apologize to Alfredo. He most certainly did not need to "check facts please before offering unqualified and useless opinion." I think that any reasonable reading of the original post is that the question is whether NZ has alpine cleft geology, the kind that produces the lovely quartz and fluorite that comes out of alpine clefts. Alfredo's answer to this question was both qualified and useful, as is always the case with Alfredo.

Agreed. Alfredo is hardly unqualified and his posts are always useful and informative. This forum remains civilized, polite and informative, let us not act as trolls. Remember, respect is a virtue. We will exercise it.

My two cents:

Although I love Alfredo so much and I consider him a reference fo almost everything related with the Geology & Mineralogy (except for nice minerals ;-) ;-) ;-) I believe that the Internet and Chats language create frequently a kind of "language-little-educated" situations. Reading the (very polite) answer of Alfredo and the re-answer from Steve I believe that both are tuned and both will love to continue their chats without mutual offense.

Just my oppinion after over 10 years (trying to) moderating two large mineral Forums… ;-)


Dear Jordi,

You do a great job of moderating and mollifying.

Regards,

Don

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Don Lum




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PostPosted: Aug 13, 2017 12:35    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Don Lum wrote:
Pierre Joubert wrote:
I find it strange that the inhabitants of NZ seem to have very little interest in finding out what secrets (minerals) these mountains hold.


Hello Pierre,

Perhaps the inhabitants of NZ know what is there, eg gold, but have learned from reading about The Black Hills Gold Rush in the Dakota Territory in the 1887 United States.

Hi to Riana.

Regards,

Don


Pierre,

I told you the wrong dates.

Black Hills Gold Rush of 1874-1877.

Sorry.

Don

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PostPosted: Aug 13, 2017 13:10    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Don Lum wrote:
Don Lum wrote:
Pierre Joubert wrote:
I find it strange that the inhabitants of NZ seem to have very little interest in finding out what secrets (minerals) these mountains hold.


Hello Pierre,

Perhaps the inhabitants of NZ know what is there, eg gold, but have learned from reading about The Black Hills Gold Rush in the Dakota Territory in the 1887 United States.

Hi to Riana.

Regards,

Don


Pierre,

I told you the wrong dates.

Black Hills Gold Rush of 1874-1877.

Sorry.

Don


Hi Dr Don, I find it hard to forgive you as I have never made the same mistake:-) Kind regards to Gwen.

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alfredo
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PostPosted: Aug 13, 2017 22:03    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Thanks to all of you for your kind words, but no apologies necessary, mates. I have several Aussie friends and am well acquainted with their typically blunt and brusque way of talking. It seems quite normal in Australia, so they probably don't mean to cause offense.

And Jordi is quite right in his opinion about my lack of knowledge of fine minerals. I suppose I'm a disciple of the late Dr Fred Pough, who said "A broken crystal is much more educational than a perfect one, because you can see what kind of cleavage it has ". ;)) ;))
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PostPosted: Aug 14, 2017 00:25    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

At a sale of geology/mineralogy books outside of the Geology Museum in Oslo, I found a two volume large format book titled something like 'The Minerals of New Zealand'. I had put these in my pile of books to buy, but someone else got them when I wasn't looking...so I do not now have these volumes. It looked like a very detailed book of the different minerals and their locations in New Zealand. I certainly would think there should be a lot of interesting minerals, but in my collection I can't think of a single item from New Zealand. Most of the country is volcanic, but I believe a lot of it is not very recent, allowing time for some metamophosis and other other processes that form minerals we know and love aside from the 'usual volcanic' minerals. Strangely, I have not been able to find this two volume book on the internet, but I know it exists and it looked very scholarly and well done. Perhaps the title was slightly different. It was certainly professionally done and had attempted to cover all minerals and included a lot of mineral and location photos. I'm so sorry I missed getting this, but as noted few of us have seen minerals at shows coming from N.Z. [perhaps they keep all the good stuff at home ;-)]
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alfredo
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PostPosted: Aug 14, 2017 07:05    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

By international treaty, signed about 175 years ago between the British and the Maori, ALL the nephrite jade in New Zealand belongs to the Maori and so you can't (legally) collect it without their permission. Since the treaty mentions "treasures" in general, perhaps the Maori could interpret that as including any fine mineral specimens? But I think my little micromounts with arrows stuck to them are probably safe ;))
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PostPosted: Aug 14, 2017 10:19    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Alfredo and Peter, this book may still be available.

List of the minerals of New Zealand Paperback – January 1, 1913
by New Zealand Geological Survey. (Author)

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PostPosted: Aug 14, 2017 10:21    Post subject: Re: New Zealand alpine minerals?  

Don Lum wrote:
Alfredo and Peter, this book may still be available.

List of the minerals of New Zealand Paperback – January 1, 1913
by New Zealand Geological Survey. (Author)


Also these:

A Photographic Guide to Rocks & Minerals of New Zealand Paperback – September 1, 2011
by N Mortimer (Author)

New Zealand Department of Mines. Geological Survey Branch. List of the Minerals of New ZealandJul 4, 2017
by P. G. Morgan and J. A. Bartrum

List of the Minerals of New Zealand (Classic Reprint) Paperback – May 6, 2017
by P. G. Morgan (Author)

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