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About cyclic twinning - (5)
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Peter Farquhar
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PostPosted: Jan 02, 2013 20:24    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

Please let everyone know that the human cyclic twins shown in my earlier photo really are in constant contact with each another (unlike some other family members with whom we’ve lost close contact). While the earlier photo does not reveal everything, as Jordi suggested it’s better to forego more details.

On a more serious note, I’d appreciate any help in deciphering the twinning in an old rutile specimen (PF-3205) from Minas Gerais, Brazil. Photo “A” shows multiple V-twinning on the front side of this rutile specimen. What else can be said to further describe this complex crystal?

Likewise photo “B” shows many terminations on the top of this stout rutile specimen. What more can you say about these terminations and this specimen? Thanks.

Peter Farquhar
Claremont, California
USA



RutileA-(PF-3205).jpg
 Description:
Rutile "A" (PF-3205)
Minas Gerais, Brazil
5.4 x 3.7 x 2.7 cm
A stout, extremely-well terminated, multiply twinned rutile crystal. Front view.
 Viewed:  37769 Time(s)

RutileA-(PF-3205).jpg



RutileB-(PF-3205).jpg
 Description:
Rutile "B" (PF-3205)
Minas Gerais, Brazil
5.4 x 3.7 x 2.7 cm
A stout, extremely-well terminated, multiply twinned rutile crystal. Top view.
 Viewed:  37764 Time(s)

RutileB-(PF-3205).jpg


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PostPosted: Jan 03, 2013 11:12    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

Another cyclic twinned rutile from Georgia:


rutile_PG.jpg
 Description:
Rutile
Graves Mountain, Lincoln County, Georgia, USA
6 x 6 x 5 cm
Photo and collection: Pep Gorgas
 Viewed:  37733 Time(s)

rutile_PG.jpg



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PostPosted: Jan 05, 2013 12:41    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

Josele wrote:
Another cyclic twinned rutile from Georgia:


Very interesting and unusually sharp cyclic twin from Graves Mountain. Thanks for posting this photo.

Do you have other photos of this rutile specimen from different angles?
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PostPosted: Jan 05, 2013 15:21    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

RutileFox wrote:
... Do you have other photos of this rutile specimen from different angles?

I asked for more pictures to Pep Gorgas, who is the owner of this >30 years old specimen and posted this picture in Spanish FMF, asking if somebody can trespass to here. I hope he will add more photos soon...

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PostPosted: Jan 06, 2013 03:17    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

Again a little contribution using a good Chinellato Matteo photo...


RUTILE Diamantina Minas Gerais DP043min-MC.10.8.jpg
 Description:
Rutile
Diamantina, M.G. Brazil
10,8 mm
Photo Matteo Chinellato
Collection Domenico Preite
 Viewed:  37630 Time(s)

RUTILE Diamantina Minas Gerais DP043min-MC.10.8.jpg



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PostPosted: Jan 06, 2013 08:17    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

Josele wrote:
I asked for more pictures to Pep Gorgas, ...

Here they are:



rutile_PG2.jpg
 Description:
Rutile
Graves Mountain, Lincoln County, Georgia, USA
6 x 6 x 5 cm
Photo and collection: Pep Gorgas
 Viewed:  37503 Time(s)

rutile_PG2.jpg



rutile_PG3.jpg
 Description:
Rutile
Graves Mountain, Lincoln County, Georgia, USA
6 x 6 x 5 cm
Photo and collection: Pep Gorgas
 Viewed:  37507 Time(s)

rutile_PG3.jpg



rutile_PG4.jpg
 Description:
Rutile
Graves Mountain, Lincoln County, Georgia, USA
6 x 6 x 5 cm
Photo and collection: Pep Gorgas
 Viewed:  37536 Time(s)

rutile_PG4.jpg



rutile_PG5.jpg
 Description:
Rutile
Graves Mountain, Lincoln County, Georgia, USA
6 x 6 x 5 cm
Photo and collection: Pep Gorgas
 Viewed:  37508 Time(s)

rutile_PG5.jpg



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PostPosted: Jan 06, 2013 08:28    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

Here I add my own contribution: a multiple contact twin on {101} of cassiterite with some small quartz points and a bit of matrix.


casi1.jpg
 Description:
Cassiterite
Viloco Mine (Araca mine), Loayza Province, La Paz Department, Bolivia.
4 x 3 x 2 cm.
 Viewed:  37543 Time(s)

casi1.jpg



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PostPosted: Jan 12, 2013 07:24    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

A contribution I spotted yesterday in the museum in Copenhagen, with a hole in the center and a nice model too. Two photos, one of the specimen and model and one with a bit more detail so that you can see the hole in the middle


Copenhagen 020.JPG
 Description:
Rutile
Magnet Cove, Akansas, USA
3 cm x 1cm
 Viewed:  37355 Time(s)

Copenhagen 020.JPG



Copenhagen 021.JPG
 Description:
Rutile
Magnet Cove, Akansas, USA
3 cm x 1 cm
More detail so that one can clearly see the hole in the middle, as one can see tha matrix.
 Viewed:  37358 Time(s)

Copenhagen 021.JPG


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PostPosted: Jan 12, 2013 16:12    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

James,
Nice post! That hole appears to be a flat spot in a concave recess. Do you know that it extends all the way through the specimen?

Pete,
A cyclic twin with a hole in the center (similar to the model just shown) could still be consistent with your theory... if the twin was subjected to isotropic etching after formation.

I guess there is also a slight chance that they could be remnants of a sagenite array similar to what you showed earlier.

Are there any real-world examples of a large "donut hole" similar to the model?

-Dean Allum
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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2013 01:57    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

James very nice sample of cyclic twinning rutile from Magnet Cove.....
Complimenti !!!!

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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2013 13:26    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

Dean Allum wrote:

Pete,
A cyclic twin with a hole in the center (similar to the model just shown) could still be consistent with your theory... if the twin was subjected to isotropic etching after formation.

I guess there is also a slight chance that they could be remnants of a sagenite array similar to what you showed earlier.

Are there any real-world examples of a large "donut hole" similar to the model?

-Dean Allum


I think the origin of cyclic rutile twins from sagenite arrays only makes sense for the six-sided "flat" twins, but not for the eight-sided "zig-zag" twins.

Be that as it may, I would question the "hole". It has limonite or some other matrix material in it, so we can't know whether it is a hole all the way through, or a depression that ends at depth. Both of the zig-zag twins that I own have "dimples" that look like holes, but they pinch out further down in the crystal. Both are kind of conical in side view, and I think they started out as a small closed crystal, but grew primarily around the top, expanding and eventually opening up in the middle. Sort of like some vanadinite and pyromorphite which are cavernous with a hexagonal hole down the middle but not all the way through.

I have personally never seen a zig-zag cyclic twin that is anywhere near as open as the model in these pictures. I think it is an incorrect model for these twins (my opinion, not a known fact).

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PostPosted: Jan 13, 2013 15:20    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

Dean

It was in a display case in the museum, so we would need to ask the museum to confirm if that is the case, as I could not really say for certain. It looked to me like it went all the way through to the matrix so was like the model, which was why I was so pleased to see it and add it to this discussion.

Apparently the curator is sick at the moment so I am not sure if they will be able to help or not.

James
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PostPosted: Jan 31, 2013 18:32    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

Thank you all for the recent contributions and interesting photos posted to this thread. It is delightful to see such fine examples of cyclic twinning in rutile and other species. In return, I want to share with you another rutile specimen from a classic locality.

In 1803, Abraham Gottlob Werner created the name “rutile” to describe a mineral from Horcajuelo de la Sierra, Madrid, Spain, which has long been regarded now as the type locality for rutile. Cyclic twinned rutile from Horcajuelo, Spain are uncommon and thus highly prized by collectors. The few specimens I have seen were mostly from old museums.

The rutile crystal from Horcajuelo shown below (PF-3405) is a large, complete sixling (measuring 3.7 cm.) in good condition and on matrix. Please let me know if you have more information about the rutiles of Horcajuelo. Are any rutile collecting sites still active in Horcajuelo?

Peter Farquhar
Claremont, California
USA



RutileSpain(PF-3405).jpg
 Description:
Rutile (PF-3405)
Horcajuelo de la Sierra, Madrid, Spain
Overall specimen 6.0 x 5.0 x 3.8 cm.
Large rutile sixling on matrix from Horcajuelo, Spain
 Viewed:  36888 Time(s)

RutileSpain(PF-3405).jpg


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PostPosted: Feb 18, 2013 18:24    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

Is it a hole or a dimple?

Several times in this thread, Pete Richards and others have challenged the accuracy of old crystallographic models showing a hole in the middle of a cyclic twinned rutile (e.g., see James’ recent photo of a Copenhagen museum displaying a zig-zag donut-shaped wooden model next to a rutile eightling from Magnet Cove, Arkansas).

It's a fascinating question, "Do real cyclic twinned rutile specimens exist with a hole completely through center of the crystal (rather than a dimple that ends at depth)?" So far, we’ve seen all dimples and no holes.

The following contribution to this ongoing discussion is a sharp rutile eightling (PF-2130) on matrix from the Parkesburg area in Pennsylvania. While the Parkesburg area is famous for its cyclic twinned rutile specimens (particularly sixlings), rutile eightlings from this locale are relatively rare.

The first photo below illustrates the unusually wide diameter of the central depression in this Parkesburg rutile eightling (in contrast to the rutile eightlings from Magnet Cove and elsewhere).

The top-down view in the second photo uses an LED light to illuminate the progressive narrowing of the central depression in a series of octagonal steps. The small black hole remaining in the center of the depression, however, appears to extend completely through the rutile crystal to the matrix below -- as measured by the depth of the hole and the thickness of the crystal. Nevertheless, we cannot be absolutely certain without removing the matrix to see if the hole goes entirely through the rutile crystal.

So is it a hole or a dimple?

Peter Farquhar
Claremont, California
USA



Rutile(PF-2130)side.jpg
 Description:
Rutile eightling (PF-2130)
Parkesburg area, Chester County, Pennsylvania, USA
Approx 2 x 2 x 2 cm
Sharp rutile eightlings are rare from Parkesburg. Formerly in Arthur Montgomery's collection.
 Viewed:  36708 Time(s)

Rutile(PF-2130)side.jpg



Rutile(PF-2130)top.jpg
 Description:
Rutile eightling (PF-2130) top view
Parkesburg area, Chester County, Pennsylvania, USA
Approx 2 x 2 x 2 cm
Top-down view of central depression shows a hole that appears to extend completely through the crystal to the matrix below.
 Viewed:  36705 Time(s)

Rutile(PF-2130)top.jpg


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PostPosted: Mar 03, 2013 17:53    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

Still hoping for feedback on the Parkesburg rutile eighting posted two weeks ago and more discussion about how such cyclic twinned crystals might grow. I appreciate your help.
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PostPosted: Mar 07, 2013 08:42    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

Hi, Peter and everybody. I will be finishing the publication of the translation of this great thread in Spanish-side FMF Forum soon, because of its obvious interest and excellence. May be some Spanish-speakers FMF members add some more information about these topics. I would translate such contributions into English and publish them here in that case.

Regards from Spain.

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PostPosted: Mar 29, 2013 17:06    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

Years ago I worked in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and would often spend my lunchtime visiting the mineral collection at the nearby Carnegie Museum of Natural History. One of my favorite rutile specimens is this extraordinary sixling from Parkesburg (CM21515). Indeed, the many hours I spent spellbound by this specimen led directly to my interest in collecting rutile.

I understand the Carnegie Museum purchased this Parkesburg rutile in 1987; it was formerly in the collection of E. Mitchell Gunnell, who had acquired it from David Seaman in 1949. The specimen is believed to have originated from the William W. Jefferis collection. Andrew Carnegie purchased Jefferis’ entire collection of over 14,000 specimens and donated them to the Carnegie Museum of Natural History in 1905. It is nice to see this specimen may be back home again.

Visitors to the Carnegie Museum will enjoy the outstanding display assembled by Marc and Deb Wilson on twinning in minerals. This Parkesburg rutile is used to illustrate cyclic twinning in the display, though few people realize the intriguing history behind this amazing specimen.

Peter Farquhar
Claremont, California
USA



Rutile sixling (CM21515).jpg
 Description:
Rutile sixling (CM21515)
Parkesburg, Pennsylvania, USA
6.5 x 5.5 x 3.0 cm
My photo is published with permission of the Carnegie Museum of Natural History. All rights reserved.
 Viewed:  36422 Time(s)

Rutile sixling (CM21515).jpg


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PostPosted: Apr 01, 2013 05:06    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

Recently, another two adularia cyclic twins were recovered by Marion Coleman from a hydrothermal vein in the Vredendal Limestone Quarry, South Africa. Both are 55 x 55 mm, so a bit smaller than the one found several years ago by Lesley Bust, illustrated on page 4 of this thread, with an analysis of the twinning. Marion's specimens are decorated with quartz and one has an accessory dolomite crystal, making them very aesthetic specimens. (For those in South Africa, please note that the Vredendal Limestone Quarry is a closed collecting site that may be visited only on the annual field trips organised by the Cape Town Gem & Mineral Club: https://ctminsoc.org.za/ )
Duncan Miller
Cape Town



Adularia2-1.jpg
 Description:
Adularia - K-feldspar with quartz and dolomite
Vredendal Limestone Quarry, South Africa
55 x 55 mm
 Viewed:  35945 Time(s)

Adularia2-1.jpg



Adularia3-1.jpg
 Description:
Adularia - K-feldspar with quartz
Vredendal Limestone Quarry, South Africa
55 x 55 mm
 Viewed:  35942 Time(s)

Adularia3-1.jpg


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PostPosted: Apr 19, 2013 18:35    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

My thanks to Duncan for posting the extraordinary photos of cyclic twinned adularia. They are really fine specimens. How many such specimens have been recovered from the Vredendal Limestone Quarry in South Africa?

Continuing the series of great cyclic twin rutile specimens, this post shows a well-known Parkesburg Pennsylvania sixling from the Harvard Mineralogical Museum (#110229).

At 4cm across, the Harvard specimen is about two-thirds the size of the rutile sixling from the Carnegie Museum (CM21515) posted earlier. Both Parkesburg specimens are very attractive with this quality and completeness, and thus quite rare from this locality.

Peter Farquhar
Claremont, California USA



Rutile sixling (Harvard-110229).jpg
 Description:
Rutile sixling (Harvard-110229)
Parkesburg, Sadsbury Township, Chester County, Pennsylvania USA
4cm across
Photo by Peter Cristofono is copyrighted 2012, and used with his permission. Also appears on Mindat as photo 470775.
 Viewed:  35776 Time(s)

Rutile sixling (Harvard-110229).jpg


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PostPosted: Apr 20, 2013 00:49    Post subject: Re: About cyclic twinning - (5)  

RutileFox wrote:
My thanks to Duncan for posting the extraordinary photos of cyclic twinned adularia. They are really fine specimens. How many such specimens have been recovered from the Vredendal Limestone Quarry in South Africa?

To my knowledge only four of the palm-sized cyclic adularia twins have been found, over a period of fifteen years, all from a pair of hydrothermal veins exposed in one quarry wall. Numerous smaller partial cyclic twins and even more numerous simple twins have been found over the years. These hydrothermal veins also produce very attractive specimens of quartz with included and projecting rutile needles, as well as smallish dolomite crystals and the occasional rosette of calcite. Many of the feldspars are very corroded and evidently there were several hydrothermal episodes. A description of the quarry is available here: https://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?p=13335#13335
Duncan
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