We use cookies to show content based on your preferences. If you continue to browse you accept their use and installation. More information. >

FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board
The place to share your mineralogical experiences

FMF English Forum is moderated by John S. White and Peter Megaw
 

Spanish message board






Newest topics and users posts
26 Apr-11:50:41 Re: fluorite from whiteman creek, vernon, bc, canada (Bob Harman)
26 Apr-11:43:31 Re: collection of manuel mesa (Manuel Mesa)
26 Apr-09:27:15 Re: fluorite from whiteman creek, vernon, bc, canada (Tobi)
26 Apr-06:37:40 Re: collection of fiebre verde (Fiebre Verde)
26 Apr-05:59:51 Re: a mineralogical trip through germany / niedersachsen - lower saxony (Jordi Fabre)
26 Apr-02:26:26 Re: collection of heimo hellwig (Heimo Hellwig)
26 Apr-01:23:45 Re: need some help (Texasdigger)
25 Apr-22:39:35 Re: the salt cathedral of zipaquira (Franjungle)
25 Apr-22:28:30 Re: collection of fiebre verde (Franjungle)
25 Apr-18:27:57 Re: fluorite from whiteman creek, vernon, bc, canada (Bob Carnein)
25 Apr-16:25:57 The mizunaka collection - calcite (Am Mizunaka)
25 Apr-16:24:14 Re: fluorite from whiteman creek, vernon, bc, canada (Kushmeja)
25 Apr-16:13:37 Re: fluorite from whiteman creek, vernon, bc, canada (Thecrystalfinder)
25 Apr-16:11:04 Fluorite from whiteman creek, vernon, bc, canada (Thecrystalfinder)
25 Apr-15:49:05 Re: purple fluorite macro (Bob Kerr)
25 Apr-11:40:37 Re: collection of manuel mesa (Manuel Mesa)
25 Apr-05:38:56 Re: purple fluorite macro (Tobi)
24 Apr-21:23:10 Re: the salt cathedral of zipaquira (Franjungle)
24 Apr-17:16:47 The mizunaka collection - quartz (Am Mizunaka)
24 Apr-16:08:36 Purple fluorite macro (Proudtex76)
24 Apr-11:00:04 Re: new mexico collecting - (27) (Philippe Durand)
24 Apr-09:30:47 Re: collection of fiebre verde (Fiebre Verde)
24 Apr-08:54:30 Re: collection of michael shaw (Crosstimber)
24 Apr-03:13:46 Re: help with identification (Tobi)
24 Apr-03:11:42 Re: new mexico collecting - (27) (Tobi)

For lists of newest topics and postings click here


RSS RSS

View unanswered posts

Why and how to register

Index Index
 FAQFAQ RegisterRegister  Log inLog in
 {Forgotten your password?}Forgotten your password?  

Like
26768


The time now is Apr 26, 2017 16:18

Search for a textSearch for a text   

A general guide for using the Forum with some rules and tips
Milpillas Azurite - fake specimen
  Goto page 1, 2  Next
  Index -> Incorrect classification and fakes
Like


View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message

Cascavel1




Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 29
Location: Arizona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 26, 2012 12:46    Post subject: Milpillas Azurite - fake specimen  

Hello all,

I'm pretty new to the FMF boards but not to mineral collecting. I've been reading some of the great posts on here for a while and decided it was time to post a thread and ask a few questions. It seems there are some really knowledgeable people on here.

Here is a specimen from my personal collection of milpillas minerals. I've been a big fan ever since saw my first piece back in 2009.
I am just curious if any of you have seen specimens from this locality with this type of lite green malachite cementing together larger chunks of azurite crystals and malachite pseudomorphs? I have one other piece that has a vein of this lite colored malachite (at least that's what I think it is) running through a small crack across the piece.
In this piece the thing that amazes me is the two small crystals that project out the front and are held by this material. I have over 700 specimens from this mine but this one is by far the most unique IMO.



IMG_4820.jpg
 Description:
Azurite/Malachite
Milpillas Mine, Cananea Mexico
6"x8"x5"
 Viewed:  19457 Time(s)

IMG_4820.jpg



7606080196_5611ff305f_b.jpg
 Description:
Azurite/Malachite
Milpillas Mine, Cananea Mexico
6"x8"x5"
 Viewed:  19481 Time(s)

7606080196_5611ff305f_b.jpg


Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Cascavel1




Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 29
Location: Arizona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 26, 2012 12:51    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

Here is one more photo of the two little floater azurites held on by this green malachite(?) cement.


7606089358_39cdccd5e9_b.jpg
 Description:
Azurite/Malachite
Milpillas Mine, Cananea Mexico
6"x8"x5"
 Viewed:  19469 Time(s)

7606089358_39cdccd5e9_b.jpg


Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Cascavel1




Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 29
Location: Arizona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 26, 2012 14:11    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

I re read the post and I think I was unclear that I actually had a question. I am trying to determine if that lite green stuff is actually malachite or some other mineral??
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Peter Megaw
Site Admin



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 767
Location: Tucson, Arizona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 26, 2012 15:02    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

Looks to me like it needs more analysis...
_________________
Siempre Adelante!
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

marvsT/Nminerals




Joined: 06 Nov 2008
Posts: 68
Location: Juda, Wisconsin

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 27, 2012 14:13    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

Perhaps the teal colored mineral is chrysocolla. There is a photo on mindat.org (Photo ID: 145140) of azurite from the Milpillas Mine with what is probably chrysocolla and another copper silicate, plancheite.
_________________
Member: Badger Lapidary and Geological Society
Great things can be found in small packages!
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

lluis




Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 495

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 27, 2012 15:07    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

Good evening

I think like marvsT, looks like crisocolla to my eyes
But as Peter said, without an analysis, all are guesses (more or less educated)

With best wishes

Lluís
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Cascavel1




Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 29
Location: Arizona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 29, 2012 13:27    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

Thanks for the input. A friend also thought I might be CU sulfate of some sort. That's the great thing about the material from this locality. You never know what accessory minerals you might see.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Peter Megaw
Site Admin



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 767
Location: Tucson, Arizona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 29, 2012 14:08    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

Shattuckite and plancheite have both been indentified at Milpillas and their colors seem closer to this than chrysocolla. It is also possible that this is a new species for Milpillas, so it looks worth investigation.

I am not clear from the photos whether the species in question is on top of the pseudos or below?



Milpillas Mal ps az on plancheite web.jpg
 Description:
malachite ps azurite with plancheite
Milpillas Mine, Quitaca, Sonora, Mexico
small cabinet
Peter Megaw specimen, Jeff Scovil photo
 Viewed:  19175 Time(s)

Milpillas Mal ps az on plancheite web.jpg



_________________
Siempre Adelante!
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Cascavel1




Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 29
Location: Arizona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 29, 2012 15:01    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

The species I am questioning lays on top and in between the pseudos and also serves as an attachment point for the two nice azurite crystals sticking out of the front of this piece.

Here is the only other piece I have which exhibits this same species. It fills the crack in the host rock on which the azurite crystals sit. The crack goes all the way around the back and this new mineral fills it the whole way around.



6888255459_5d6cd0e5da_b.jpg
 Description:
Azurite crystals on matrix
Milpillas Mine, Cananea Mexico
4"x3"x3"
 Viewed:  19160 Time(s)

6888255459_5d6cd0e5da_b.jpg


Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Peter Megaw
Site Admin



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 767
Location: Tucson, Arizona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Nov 19, 2012 15:49    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

In Mexico last week I was offered a small lot of Milpillas material with two pieces showing remarkably similar looking teal colored stuff... so I took the opportunity to try to solve the mystery.

Unfortunately, it was easy to do as it was immediately apparent that the specimens were assembled fakes with ground up malachite mixed into the glue to make that wierd teal colored filling. Not sure if it's Elmer's or some more chemically based glue, but I would guess that swabbing the "malachite" with a Q-tip soaked in either water, alcohol or acetone will instantly impart a green color to the cotton. I'd follow that water-alcohol-acetone progression to eliminate the most obvious glues first and minimize exposure to acetone.

I actually considered buying one sample to extract a decent component but the seller did not want to admit it was a fake and held out for a "real" price.

Looking at these pictures it looks like several pieces were cobbled together with this stuff, so you might be able to disaggregate it and rescue a bit or two

Caveat emptor...again!

_________________
Siempre Adelante!
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Cascavel1




Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 29
Location: Arizona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Nov 23, 2012 17:54    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

What do u think it's worth in parts? 3 main pieces with no visible damage plus the two little singles on front.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

gemlover




Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 211
Location: Easley, SC


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Nov 23, 2012 18:37    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

This forum does not do values.

john

_________________
John
John Atwell Rasmussen, Ph.D.. AJP
Geologist and Gemologist
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Peter Megaw
Site Admin



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 767
Location: Tucson, Arizona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Nov 23, 2012 19:29    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

Echo John: Its only value now is as a fake....although there are some fake collectors out there (double entendre intended) most would argue its value is very low, so the parts might be worth more than the whole. I guess i'd take a hard look at each part and see how it might stand on its own
_________________
Siempre Adelante!
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Cascavel1




Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 29
Location: Arizona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Nov 23, 2012 20:47    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

Thanks guys. Sorry I asked about values.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Pierre Joubert




Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 1256
Location: Western Cape


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Nov 24, 2012 03:33    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

I follow this discussion and If my understanding is correct, the lovely specimens displayed by Cascavel are fakes?! Is my assumption correct?
_________________
Pierre Joubert


'The tree of silence bears the fruit of peace. '
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Peter Megaw
Site Admin



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 767
Location: Tucson, Arizona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Nov 24, 2012 09:12    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

Just the big one...the light green, wierd looking "malachite" is the cement used to patch several pieces together. Out of thousands of specimens from Milpillas I have seen just this one and two more. Anyone else out there seen any of them?
_________________
Siempre Adelante!
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Cascavel1




Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 29
Location: Arizona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Nov 24, 2012 09:46    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

The second piece I posted also has that same malachite cement used to fill the crack in the matrix rock. I believe it was used for aesthetic purposes rather than anything else. It came from a different source and was purchased a while before the big piece. The creator may be the same person though.
The good news on the big piece is that I can return it for a full refund although I do actually admire the work that went into it but don't support the practice of deception.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Pierre Joubert




Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 1256
Location: Western Cape


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Nov 24, 2012 13:37    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

Cascavel1 wrote:
What do u think it's worth in parts? 3 main pieces with no visible damage plus the two little singles on front.


I can understand your question. You would like to assess the damage. Some people have no shame!

_________________
Pierre Joubert


'The tree of silence bears the fruit of peace. '
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Cascavel1




Joined: 15 Feb 2012
Posts: 29
Location: Arizona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Nov 24, 2012 17:50    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

I would have posed it differently had I been aware of the forum policy. Guess I should read the terms of service.
I guess in some sense I admire the work that went into making it look so eye appealing.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Peter Megaw
Site Admin



Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 767
Location: Tucson, Arizona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Nov 24, 2012 19:17    Post subject: Re: Milpillas Azurite specimen  

If you don't have a copy...get a hold of Sinkankis's "Gem and Mineral Databook" (long out of print so I am not promoting commerce here). It has an excellent chapter on fakes and what to look for. Things have gotten a LOT more sophisticated with new cements, fillers etc...but the kind of constructed fake you've got is well covered. He has some good tips for things that should twig you to the fact that something is wrong.

There is also a good article on more sophisticated fakes in Mineralogical Record perhaps 20 years ago...and an excellent edition of "The Vug" devoted to the subject too.

_________________
Siempre Adelante!
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   
Display posts from previous:   
   Index -> Incorrect classification and fakes   All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 2
  Goto page 1, 2  Next  

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


All pictures, text, design © Forum FMF 2006-2017


Powered by FMF