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Philip Mostmans
Joined: 08 Nov 2011
Posts: 43
Location: Mechelen
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 Posted: Jul 03, 2014 09:29 Post subject: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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Hi all,
I was cataloging specimens today, which I try to do on a regular basis to keep up with as much specimen information as possible.
I am always interested in collection methodology in general (not only for minerals) and I like to think I put some thought in the way my collection is organised, without the need to re-invent the wheel. Still I am curious what other collectors keep in their records and how they organise.
To give an idea as to what I have:
1/ Excel with specimen information (minerals, associations, locality, dimensions (incl. weight), Place of puchase (eg. Sainte-Marie-aux mines show, Ebay,...), Dealer name, Date of Purchase, Price, Damage description, Specimen type (locality specimen, display specimen,...), Storage location (I give my flats a unique code eg. SB1 (storage box 1) or DC1 (Display cabinet 1)), Old label (if present the name of the collection), specimen description, extra information (details about the find, personal contacts,...). I also keep some status info like Specimen photographed?, Label printed?, Sold?,...
Every mineral gets a unique identifier.
2/ In an A4 binder I get plastic folders on which I put a sticker with the mineral ID (for cross reference) (ordered by acquisition date). In each folder can be the following:
Old label, duplicate of my printed label, Printed version of the information in the excel, Printouts of the website if the specimen was bought online.
3/ In the flats each specimen is boxed in a plastic box (I use Krantz). On each box is a sticker with basic info (minerals present + locality information + mineral ID). In each box is a printed display label together with the specimen (I don't put any numbers directly on my specimens).
4/ On each display label is the name of the mineral (in my case almost always Fluorite) with associated minerals, full locality information and specimen number. I print two labels for each specimen.
I keep digital copies of everything on a local and off site hard drive.
Currently I am reprocessing photos and I am trying to find a good way to link them to the database.
I am curious if there is anyone with a similar system? People who think this is overkill?
People that constantly add new information about the localities (eg. mine history, site photo's,...)? People who add photo's of similar specimens they find online? I mostly have bought minerals. Is there a different take when most of your specimens are field collected? Or swapped?
Looking forward to the responses!
Cheers! |
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Gail
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 5839
Location: Texas, Lone Star State.
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| Posted: Jul 03, 2014 10:02 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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Hi Philip,
We have invested in many programs for cataloging, but came back to the very method you are using. We have 8600 pieces and going strong.
_________________
Minerals you say? Why yes, I'll take a dozen or so... |
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Dale Hallmark
Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 189
Location: Texas Panhandle
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| Posted: Jul 03, 2014 10:15 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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I use excel but never even had a list before. Now I record what I know about the specimens. Which for old ones I have is darn little. Nothing nearly as extensive as most and I have very few anyway. So the ss is under development
Dale |
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Jordi Fabre
Overall coordinator of the Forum
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 4896
Location: Barcelona
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basti
Joined: 29 Mar 2012
Posts: 27
Location: Brno, Czech Republic
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| Posted: Jul 03, 2014 11:22 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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| I strongly suggest avoiding Excel. It is proprietary format and especially current xlsx is absolutely useless without excel. Save it as CSV or text file. I use MySQL database with CSV backup. MySQL enables me to search anything I want which is absolutely impossible in Excel unless you develop your own search functions. |
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GneissWare
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1287
Location: California
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| Posted: Jul 03, 2014 11:26 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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I use my own software for cataloging which allows lots of info to be kept, such as size, weight, chemistry, Dana / Strunz numbers, properties, description of specimen, ex. collections, notes, photos, extensive locality info, etc. I like the ability to sort and search based on numerous criteria. Unfortunately it only runs on Windows up to Vista at this point, but I run it on an XP machine because I like XP.
Carles also has a software product he developed which is covered on this forum. For example, see https://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?p=653&highlight=#653
I also keep all the old labels, even old dealer labels, as I like to trace the history of specimens. |
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keldjarn
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Jul 03, 2014 11:57 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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I use the free database in Mindat with links to photos of the specimens I have posted there. I fill in most of the information that can be registered there. In addition I have a label with all the information with the specimen - but I try to make it simple wanting the cataloging process to take only a few minutes per specimen. If you on average spend 5 minutes cataloging a specimen - that is only 12 per hour and you spend a lot of your life cataloging - if your collection approaches 10.000. I would rather use much less and use the time for something else...
Knut |
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Philip Mostmans
Joined: 08 Nov 2011
Posts: 43
Location: Mechelen
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| Posted: Jul 03, 2014 15:07 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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Some great input here!
| bast wrote: | | I strongly suggest avoiding Excel. It is proprietary format and especially current xlsx is absolutely useless without excel. Save it as CSV or text file. I use MySQL database with CSV backup. MySQL enables me to search anything I want which is absolutely impossible in Excel unless you develop your own search functions. |
Since I have a themed collection (only Fluorite) I do find any generic cataloging software, doesn't really suite all my needs in regard to which data I specifically want to keep. I designed my own at one point as a database, but didn't like the hassle of maintaining the database itself (as a program). I starred of in windows with Access, went to Open office and since I am on a mac now eventually Filemaker. I always reverted back to excel because of its simplicity and easy upkeep (much like what Gail was describing in her post). You are right about the closed format though, but for now I am pretty sure Microsoft won't stop making excel, which makes it a safe bet. Don't you need some sort of front end (screens & buttons) to make the MySQL work?
| keldjarn wrote: | ... but I try to make it simple wanting the cataloging process to take only a few minutes per specimen. If you on average spend 5 minutes cataloging a specimen - that is only 12 per hour and you spend a lot of your life cataloging - if your collection approaches 10.000. I would rather use much less and use the time for something else...
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Interesting point here. Do cataloging habits change when your collection grows?
Myself, I am perfectionist and like to keep as much info as possible on the specimen. As an archaeologist I was always taught that well documented artifacts make them scientifically and historically more valuable and interesting.
Even for minerals I find this to be the case. This means I often spend more than 15 minutes properly cataloging specimens and describing them. I have a collection of only 320 specimens, so this is manageable. I can sympathise with keldjarn though that if your collection grows in these proportions 15 minutes simply can't be done. For me that would be a hard bargain, since I would not be able to decide what info to put in the record and what not.
@ Gail: If you manage a collection of 8000+ specimens I assume you must have come across this too?
@Jordi: Thank you for the links on related topics. Going to need some time to catch up reading!
As a follow up: Does anyone keep side recode in their catalog?
For example: I have a table with all the localities from which I have specimens from. From time to time you hear stories, discover new finds on a show, read articles on the internet,... Would you add it to your mineral catalog?
Currently I use evernote software to keep interesting photo's or web clippings. But they are unrelated to my mineral catalog. |
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alfredo
Site Admin
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 979
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| Posted: Jul 03, 2014 15:21 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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Just use Mindat's cataloguing software and let Mindat host your catalogue online! Upload a snapshot of each specimen, and its info. Mindat will automatically assign each specimen a unique 6-digit/letter identification code ("minID") that will not be duplicated in anyone else's catalogue (unlike numbers you just invent for yourself, which have confusing counterparts in many other collections). You can make this catalogue public or private, as you wish.
This way, after you get squished by a falling boulder in that mine you snuck into, the rest of the mineral collecting community has access to all your specimen info, and it doesn't just disappear uselessly into a black hole, as usually used to happen after a collector's untimely demise. All other procedures may soon be considered obsolete ;)) |
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James Catmur
Site Admin
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 1344
Location: Cambridge
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| Posted: Jul 03, 2014 15:24 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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20 years ago I created a database using the DB3 format. I also wrote a series of routines for basic entry, updates, searches. This format can be exported into CSV or Excel. I like the routines as they are designed to speed up data entry (and I used to be a database programmer so they were easy to create and maintain).
All that said, I have now got Windows 8 and can no longer use the software as it will not run under 64bit (I can still use all the data, but not my software). I suspect I will keep the same data structure as it is fairly robust but need to think it through. Next time I have a session I will ponder a bit more.
The data I keep is: minerals, locality, how it was obtained, when it was obtained (by me and when it was found), value data (price if I bought it, estimated value if I found it), current estimated value, any valuations I have had. I do not yet link to photos, but as I upgrade I think I will. |
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Mark Ost
Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 516
Location: Virginia Beach
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| Posted: Jul 03, 2014 17:55 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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| I found the key for me was creating a album with all the labels. Then I use a text file to catalog what I have. I have nowhere near as many as Gail does but enough to easily lose track if I don't keep up. I suspect at 8000 Gail has to be very careful and organized or it just gets lost forever. If you keep all labels you at least have a foothold and the basic information at hand if you need to reconstruct. This is one of my goals in retirement (1.3 years). No matter how small you start there will come the day when you can no longer just rely on informal cataloging. My brain is not getting any firmer either! |
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Mark Ost
Joined: 18 Mar 2013
Posts: 516
Location: Virginia Beach
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| Posted: Jul 03, 2014 17:58 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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| Alfredo, that is why you always leave a catalog of your specimens in a plain manilla envelope on the dash so in case you do not return from your......excursion...they can go to your house and .......inventory! |
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Gail
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 5839
Location: Texas, Lone Star State.
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| Posted: Jul 03, 2014 20:19 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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We keep all labels in an acid free envelope in a file. We love labels! On our excel we have specimen assigned number, which is also adhered to specimen. Size, locality, provenance, what we paid, whom we bought it from, mine info, associated minerals, if professional photo was taken, and by whom, when it was mined...
And fun stories that go with the piece. We can find the specimen through search features quite easily. We are sticklers for cataloging, it takes a lot of time but we don't plan on quitting mineral collecting anytime soon!
| Mark Ost wrote: | | I found the key for me was creating a album with all the labels. Then I use a text file to catalog what I have. I have nowhere near as many as Gail does but enough to easily lose track if I don't keep up. I suspect at 8000 Gail has to be very careful and organized or it just gets lost forever. If you keep all labels you at least have a foothold and the basic information at hand if you need to reconstruct. This is one of my goals in retirement (1.3 years). No matter how small you start there will come the day when you can no longer just rely on informal cataloging. My brain is not getting any firmer either! |
_________________
Minerals you say? Why yes, I'll take a dozen or so... |
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Philip Mostmans
Joined: 08 Nov 2011
Posts: 43
Location: Mechelen
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| Posted: Jul 04, 2014 03:33 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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| Gail wrote: | We keep all labels in an acid free envelope in a file. We love labels! On our excel we have specimen assigned number, which is also adhered to specimen. Size, locality, provenance, what we paid, whom we bought it from, mine info, associated minerals, if professional photo was taken, and by whom, when it was mined...
And fun stories that go with the piece. We can find the specimen through search features quite easily. We are sticklers for cataloging, it takes a lot of time but we don't plan on quitting mineral collecting anytime soon! |
I use plastic zip bags for storing old and new labels. Would this be sufficient compared to the acid free paper envelopes? |
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keldjarn
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Jul 04, 2014 04:50 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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In a previous post I wrote: | keldjarn wrote: | | ... but I try to make it simple wanting the cataloging process to take only a few minutes per specimen. If you on average spend 5 minutes cataloging a specimen - that is only 12 per hour and you spend a lot of your life cataloging - if your collection approaches 10.000. I would rather use much less and use the time for something else... |
Philip posted this question: | Philip Mostmans wrote: | | Interesting point here. Do cataloging habits change when your collection grows? |
I started collecting 50 years ago (the first self-collected specimen still in my collection dates from 1963). My collecting priorities and cataloging system have changed over the years as the collection has been growing. I started with a handwritten cataloge but after about 20 years I realised I had to change to a new system. Having even at that time close to 10.000 specimens I understood I also had to decide on a strategy for building and upgrading the collection. Seeing many of my friends using hundreds of hours making computer-programs or using (temporarily available) cataloging programs (In the age of Commodore 64 and long before before windows..), I decided on a wait and see strategy. I made labels for new specimens including information about year of acquisition, source, price if purchased and previous owners + data about means of ID and kept all receipts and old labels with the specimen. I found the available dataprograms to unreliable or unsuitable to start entering data into a computer based cataloge. I especially found it totally unrewarding entering data about chemical composition, crystal system etc. into a collection database. Such information should be available elsewhere. I also waited for a system like Mindat to organise the different localities because spelling these correctly based on label information was a huge task. I thereforely enthusiasticly joined Mindat at an early stage and early on urged Jolyon to make a cataloging software available linked to the information in Mindat and I am very pleased he has included this feature as a service to Mindat members !
In my experience entering all relevant data using the Mindat cataloging software takes only a fraction of the time using excel or other cataloging software and with much greater accuracy (i.e. on the spelling of mineral names and localities ). The feature linking this information to a photo of the specimen in my gallery in Mindat is invaluable.
By waiting with making the computerized cataloge I havalso been able to upgrade the collection during this time with much greater flexibility and decide on my priorities and which specimens to keep. I started a process of totally rearranging and cataloging the collection 3 years ago and have completed cataloging more than 5.000 specimens using the Mindat software at an average of less than 3 minutes per specimen when equiped with a number, label and photo allready in my gallery in the database and about 5 minutes if I have had to make a new label and number the specimen. Taking and uploading a photo may add another 5 minutes (depending on the quality I would like to see in the uploaded photo). Using this strategy I expect to have sorted the collection down to about 12.000-15.000 specimens and finished the project in 3-5 years.
As additional information to be entered in the database I have arranged the collection in a system of display cabinets and drawers assigned to a comprehensive systematic collection, locality based sub-collections and locality based display cabinets. ("localities" may also be countries or geological environments i.e. granite pegmatites). I have also assigned an evaluation using the Mindat software and a fixed currency conversation rate which is necessary when USD is not your "native" currency". (After visiting major shows around the world during the last year I think I have to add a zero to many of the evaluations to keep up with the soaring prices). I have found it especially important in a searchable field to add ionformation about the means if identification AND if a specimens needs further verification. Also information about specific specimens having been the subject to scientific publications or pictured in Mineralogical journals is added in a searchable field (after more than 50 years I have a few of these).
As an answer to the question of Philip : Yes - your cataloging strategy will change and should be adapted to your (changing?) collecting strategies - BUT you should allways retain as much information as possible (including old labels and receipts) when acquiring a specimen and keep it securely with the specimen. Precise locality information, source of the specimen and possible reference to means of identification are of prime importance. Information about the specimen itself (size, weight, associated minerals, value - even the id. of the mineral etc) can allways be derived from the specimen at a later date).
Each collector must find the right strategy for the personal collecting habits and priorities. But I have seen friends quitting mineral collecting because they got lost in complex computer-cataloging with no time to really enjoy their specimens, seeing other collections and museums, visiting shows and self-collecting in the field. Collectors rarely have a passion for minerals because they like "office-work". Be conscious about what your really enjoy about minerals and collecting and use most of the available time and resources to pursue these interests. For most of us the cataloging is just a necessary "obligation" to ourselves and to the posterity and not what we really want to do.
Knut |
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Gail
Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 5839
Location: Texas, Lone Star State.
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| Posted: Jul 04, 2014 08:23 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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Philip,
Plastic bags are far better than nothing! You can go online and order acid free "archival" sleeves for labels of all sizes. I like them because they don't add to the deterioration of really old and beloved labels.
_________________
Minerals you say? Why yes, I'll take a dozen or so... |
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Philip Mostmans
Joined: 08 Nov 2011
Posts: 43
Location: Mechelen
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| Posted: Jul 04, 2014 08:27 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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| keldjarn wrote: | | As an answer to the question of Philip : Yes - your cataloging strategy will change and should be adapted to your (changing?) collecting strategies - BUT you should allways retain as much information as possible (including old labels and receipts) when acquiring a specimen and keep it securely with the specimen. Precise locality information, source of the specimen and possible reference to means of identification are of prime importance. Information about the specimen itself (size, weight, associated minerals, value - even the id. of the mineral etc) can allways be derived from the specimen at a later date). |
Interesting insight. I never thought about specimen data as primary and secondary data. Might incorporate this into my database.
| keldjarn wrote: | | Be conscious about what your really enjoy about minerals and collecting and use most of the available time and resources to pursue these interests. For most of us the cataloging is just a necessary "obligation" to ourselves and to the posterity and not what we really want to do. |
I do enjoy cataloging... :-)). I do get your point however. You have to make time to look at your specimens as well, not stare at data or photographs all day long. They are not nearly as rewarding as the real deal.
I am still a bit weary as to "in the cloud" cataloging software (like eg. Mindat). As good the initiative might be (even with the integration with the rest of mindat) I feel you still lose some of the control over the data you enter (like with the photographs you upload to the website). Normally I am an early adopter for these sort of things, but not in this case. |
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Susan Robinson
Joined: 05 Aug 2010
Posts: 163
Location: Hancock, MI
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| Posted: Jul 04, 2014 09:39 Post subject: Re: Cataloging specimens - What records to keep |
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Another thing to remember when cataloging minerals, especially rare species, is if they have been analytically verified. The info to add is by what methods (XRD, SEM, EDS), and when and by whom.
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Susan Robinson |
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