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Tom Mazanec
Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Twinsburg, Ohio
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 Posted: Sep 08, 2016 09:05 Post subject: Trinitite |
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In my sci-fi reading, I am now going thru an Atomic War phase (Rhinehat's Long Voyage Back and Turtledove's Hot War series), which has inspired me to get myself a bit of trinitite.
I found some dealers online, and have some questions:
How can I ensure authenticity, that the sample was not just something made with an oxy-acetylene blowtorch?
Are there any considerations in storage? I don't intend to eat it (the sites warn against this) but is it still "hot" enough for extra precautions?
Any other points?
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bob kerr
Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 537
Location: Monroeville PA
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| Posted: Sep 08, 2016 09:20 Post subject: Re: Trinitite |
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from Wikipedia:
"There are many known fakes in circulation among collectors.[citation needed] These fakes use a variety of means to achieve the glassy green silica look as well as mild radioactivity, however, only trinitite from a nuclear explosion will contain certain neutron activation products that are not found in naturally radioactive ores and minerals. Gamma spectroscopy can narrow down the potential nuclear explosions from which the material formed."
i would bet that the cost of verifying the presence of neutron activation products would be 100 times or more the value of the piece.
bob
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Tom Mazanec
Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Twinsburg, Ohio
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| Posted: Sep 08, 2016 12:11 Post subject: Re: Trinitite |
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I wouldn't take that bet :-)
Well, I'll pick out the most reliable looking one.
I imagine they are pretty safe after 71+ years, at least that is what the sites say.
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Cesar M. Salvan
Site Admin
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Posts: 126
Location: Alcalá de Henares
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| Posted: Sep 08, 2016 20:43 Post subject: Re: Trinitite |
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| Tom Mazanec wrote: | In my sci-fi reading, I am now going thru an Atomic War phase (Rhinehat's Long Voyage Back and Turtledove's Hot War series), which has inspired me to get myself a bit of trinitite.
I found some dealers online, and have some questions:
How can I ensure authenticity, that the sample was not just something made with an oxy-acetylene blowtorch?
Are there any considerations in storage? I don't intend to eat it (the sites warn against this) but is it still "hot" enough for extra precautions?
Any other points? |
YES, you can ensure the authenticity. This entry from my blog could help (sorry, it is in Spanish): https://espiadellabo.com/2015/12/noticia-no30-trinitita/
NO, any considerations about storage. The remaining activity of trinitite is very very low and it is completely safe.
On the other hand, if you need to ensure and certify authenticity, you can send me a sample and I'll do it for you.
| Description: |
| Real trinitite samples from Trinity site. |
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Tom Mazanec
Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Twinsburg, Ohio
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| Posted: Sep 10, 2016 12:03 Post subject: Re: Trinitite |
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Thanks, Cesar! I expected so, but was glad to read it from someone who does not have a financial interest in convincing me.
Could you PM any info on dealers I should either watch out for, or trust?
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Cesar M. Salvan
Site Admin
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Posts: 126
Location: Alcalá de Henares
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| Posted: Sep 11, 2016 05:17 Post subject: Re: Trinitite |
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| Tom Mazanec wrote: | Thanks, Cesar! I expected so, but was glad to read it from someone who does not have a financial interest in convincing me.
Could you PM any info on dealers I should either watch out for, or trust? |
Sorry Tom, I am not really sure to understand you. Who has financial interest in convincing you?
I do not have any information on dealers. A friend collected the stuff in situ and I analyzed it myself. It is easy (although it is necessary to have the right tool) to ensure authenticity.
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Tom Mazanec
Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Twinsburg, Ohio
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| Posted: Sep 11, 2016 06:21 Post subject: Re: Trinitite |
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| Cesar M. Salvan wrote: | | Tom Mazanec wrote: | Thanks, Cesar! I expected so, but was glad to read it from someone who does not have a financial interest in convincing me.
Could you PM any info on dealers I should either watch out for, or trust? |
Sorry Tom, I am not really sure to understand you. Who has financial interest in convincing you?
I do not have any information on dealers. A friend collected the stuff in situ and I analyzed it myself. It is easy (although is necessary the right tool) to ensure authenticity. |
I just figured the websites offering trinitite for sale might downplay any hazard in owning a sample, as they want to sell you a sample.
Since you are not trying to sell me your sample, you have no reason to try to deceive me, so I trust your reassurances about the lack of danger.
I will probably just trust the sale, but if I wish to authenticate, what would I do? Mail you my sample and then you test and mail it back to me if it passes?
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Cesar M. Salvan
Site Admin
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Posts: 126
Location: Alcalá de Henares
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| Posted: Sep 11, 2016 19:22 Post subject: Re: Trinitite |
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| Tom Mazanec wrote: |
I just figured the websites offering trinitite for sale might downplay any hazard in owning a sample, as they want to sell you a sample.
Since you are not trying to sell me your sample, you have no reason to try to deceive me, so I trust your reassurances about the lack of danger.
I will probably just trust the sale, but if I wish to authenticate, what would I do? Mail you my sample and then you test and mail it back to me if it passes? |
Tom,
In my opinion, it does not make sense that a seller try to deceive you with fake trinitite. It is impossible to falsify: the characteristic green color (caused by rare earths), the characteristics of the glass made in the conditions of the explosion and the isotope assemblage and activities cannot be reproduced; specially the last: You need exactly the same nuclear explosion in the same place and let stand the glass formed 70 years to have the same composition. Is very easy for a professional to distinguish trinitite from other nuclear test glasses, and even easier to distinguish it from glass made using sand and a torch in the backyard of an unscrupulous seller.
The activity, I insist, is very low and the samples are absolutely safe. A trinitite sample was dangerous during its first years after the explosion, but now its activity is harmless and can be detected only using sensitive instruments. If a seller tries to deceive you, it is very easy to show him up. It is good to be cautious and remember the caveat emptor, but in this case I think it's not necessary to be mistrustful.
Anyway, if you need me to be sure (a wise move, especially if the sample is good and expensive), I am glad to help.
| Description: |
| Another trinitite sample from Trinity site. |
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10837 Time(s) |
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Tom Mazanec
Joined: 11 Feb 2016
Posts: 139
Location: Twinsburg, Ohio
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| Posted: Sep 12, 2016 11:53 Post subject: Re: Trinitite |
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| Cesar M. Salvan wrote: | | Tom Mazanec wrote: |
I just figured the websites offering trinitite for sale might downplay any hazard in owning a sample, as they want to sell you a sample.
Since you are not trying to sell me your sample, you have no reason to try to deceive me, so I trust your reassurances about the lack of danger.
I will probably just trust the sale, but if I wish to authenticate, what would I do? Mail you my sample and then you test and mail it back to me if it passes? |
Tom,
In my opinion, it does not make sense that a seller try to deceive you with fake trinitite. It is impossible to falsify: the characteristic green color (caused by rare earths), the characteristics of the glass made in the conditions of the explosion and the isotope assemblage and activities cannot be reproduced; specially the last: You need exactly the same nuclear explosion in the same place and let stand the glass formed 70 years to have the same composition. Is very easy for a professional to distinguish trinitite from other nuclear test glasses, and even easier to distinguish it from glass made using sand and a torch in the backyard of an unscrupulous seller.
The activity, I insist, is very low and the samples are absolutely safe. A trinitite sample was dangerous during its first years after the explosion, but now its activity is harmless and can be detected only using sensitive instruments. If a seller try to deceive you, it is very easy to show him up. It is good to be cautious and remember the caveat emptor, but in this case I think it's not necessary to be mistrustful.
Anyway, if you need me to be sure (a wise move, specially if the sample is good and expensive), I am glad to help. |
Well, it can't be expensive...my cousin/guardian has put me on a strict budget (if we were in Wind In The Willows, he would be Badger and I would be Toad). So I will just get the best I can for what I can afford, and let that be it.
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