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21 May-17:18:18 Re: quarter million fake tourmaline cluster. (John Betts)
21 May-17:18:06 Re: quarter million fake tourmaline cluster. (Jean Sendero)
21 May-17:13:43 Re: a mineralogical trip through the regions of the uk - england / cumbria (Colin Robinson)
21 May-17:08:09 Re: quarter million fake tourmaline cluster. (Texasdigger)
21 May-17:00:56 Re: quarter million fake tourmaline cluster. (Alfredo)
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21 May-16:16:32 Re: a mineralogical trip through the regions of the uk - england / county durham (Colin Robinson)

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Please help me identify if these are fake or treated
  
  Index -> Incorrect classification and fakes
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TomS




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 09:53    Post subject: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

I was wondering if someone could help me identify if any or all of these pieces are fake or have been treated. Thanks for any help.


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TomS




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 09:54    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

item 2


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TomS




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 09:55    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

item 3


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TomS




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 09:56    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

item 4


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TomS




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 09:56    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

item 5


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TomS




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 09:57    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

and finally item 6. Thanks for any help!


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James
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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 10:45    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

Please note that you can post multiple photos in a single message.

http://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?p=19493#19493

Looks like some /most are treated, so I guess that means they are fake (to me it is not either/or but both)

James
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TomS




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 10:56    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

James wrote:
Please note that you can post multiple photos in a single message.

http://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?p=19493#19493

Looks like some /most are treated, so I guess that means they are fake (to me it is not either/or but both)

James


Thanks for the info. I wanted to put all the photos in one post but I didn't know how. I'll do that in the future.
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kushmeja




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 11:07    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

#4 looks like it may be natural, but the others looks like they have likely been treated with coloring and/or heat to change the color.

John
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Pete Richards
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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 11:17    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

I would say that
1 is possibly natural, with hematite as the color, but could be enhanced with artificial color as well
2 and 3 could be natural, but are quite possibly irradiated to produce the smoky color
4 is probably natural
5 is definitely dyed
6 is probably amethyst that has been artificially heated to produce "citrine"

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lluis




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 11:38    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

I think more or less like James: treated, and then, depending as how they has been sold, simply fakes.
Till the last, that looks to me as a burnt amethyst (commonly sold as "citrine", which is not), I think that rest are maybe a natural ones subjected to man made hydrothermal growing, adding something in some cases to produce colours.
The green ones, look to me as the old Chinese ones....

With best wishes

Lluís
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Susan Robinson




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 16:02    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

The vivid green crystal cluster looks like it was artificially grown.
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Mike Wood




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 16:06    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

Like Pete says, I say no.1 is natural (haematite included and stained quartz).
2 and 3 look like irradiated quartz to me, but might be wrong..
4 looks natural quartz with green mineral inclusions; possible but doubtful that it's been enhanced by hydrothermal quartz 'growths', like Lluis said.
5 - upon close scrutiny it looks like zeolites to me! Heulandite, Stilbite and probable Laumontite. The green could be copper staining, or algae!
The Laumontite crystals - if that is what they are - look remarkably fresh and could have been sprayed with an aerosol sealant to stop them dehydrating... that also might explain the strong green algae colouring (trapped in sealant), if algae it be.
6 must be heat-treated amethyst - 'fake citrine'.

Nice big specimens though!
Maybe a close-up photo of a single crystal from 2 and 3, with light from behind it as well, would give us a better idea.

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Jamison Brizendine




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 16:07    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

#4 is not entirely "natural"...sorry

It is actually broken quartz (I think from Madagascar?) which has been "re-healed" in autoclaves. I have also seen pictures of similar specimens which show the "rack marks" from being put in an autoclave.
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TomS




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 19:12    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

Thank you to everyone who has shared their thoughts and info. I'm still kind of new to this and I am learning more and more new things each day so I welcome any info that I can get. The photos I posted where of all the items I suspected not to be natural in my collection. I believe the rest of my collection is all natural. The one item that's still really questioning to me is the 5th item because it looks very unnatural to me but it came from a fairly reputable seller that that has always been good in the past. Here are some more photos and some info from the auction from the 5th specimen. Anymore thoughts on this one would be appreciated.


FABULOUS GREEN GYPSUM VAR SELENITE SPECIMEN WITH EXTRA LARGE CRYSTALS

CRYSTALS IN GREAT CONDITION

ORIGIN: PERNATTY LAGOON, STUART SHELF, SOUTH AUSTRALIA, AUSTRALIA

SIZE: 128 MM X 91 MM X 90 MM (5" X 3.6" X 3.5")

WEIGHT: 250 GRAMS



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TomS




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 19:14    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

Mike Wood wrote:

Maybe a close-up photo of a single crystal from 2 and 3, with light from behind it as well, would give us a better idea.


I'll try to get some more pics of those. Thanks for your thoughts so far.
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Bob Harman




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2017 22:10    Post subject: Re: Please help me identify if these are fake or treated  

There are lots of green selenite (var. gypsum) specimens from Australia. They come in various shades of pale thru bright green. While many are entirely natural, some may be color enhanced. Each individual specimen needs to be evaluated on its own merits. The evaluation should be in person rather than thru a photo and should include seeing if the green color can be removed or lightened with water or a solvent such as alcohol or acetone etc. The color should be compared to a known natural example. BOB

As an addendum, they are from the PERNATTY LAGOON locality in South Australia. Go to the selenite page on the Mindat website to see virtually identical specimens including several offered by an ethical and prominent hi end dealer. Also many may be viewed by simply googling "green selenite". Lots of examples pictured there.
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