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Why we collect?
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Jordi Fabre
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PostPosted: Jul 20, 2009 04:38    Post subject: Why we collect?  

An interesting new thread ( https://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?p=6200#6200 ) proposed by Bugrock

Bugrock wrote:
Why we collect? Personally I believe there is a collector's personality. I collected stamps and coins a bit in younger days. Then moved on to butterflies and moths (which gave rise to a few scientific papers despite lack of formal training in entomology, but with the help of many mentors) and now I am deep into minerals.

I'm not sure if there is a psychologist or two on this forum but it seems there is no doubt that "collecting personality" ['disorder'?] exists and I would suspect most attending this forum are card-carrying members. Yes, there is an excellent recent series of articles on this in Min Rec but we could share some personal observations and testimonials.
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PostPosted: Jul 20, 2009 06:34    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

I was sentimental from birth, seeing things and objects as reminders of special days.
I started collecting things, as a youngster, to remind me of family vacations and rememberances of dear friends.
I just naturaly moved on to collecting things because I liked surrounding myself with variety.
For me it was dolls from many countries, series of books, thimbles, penny collections and a few stamps. In my teens it became tea pots and English royalty commemorative plates, cups, spoons and books.
I went into the art business and noticed people liked to collect works by one, or two, artists and bought every one that came available, thus the limited edition market appealed to the "collector" out there.

I saw that I was not alone in my desire to own things that formed groups of items.

Believe me, there are far more people with the instinct to horde than just us! Perhaps we all originated from squirrels and not apes?! ha ha!

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PostPosted: Jul 20, 2009 08:47    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

Without a doubt there is a collector gene! I have this discussion all the time with non-collectors who can pack all their treasured belongings into one box and who can't understand why I would want to surround myself with so much "stuff" (and who are all too happy to **help** me purge most of it...). Some people take great comfort in keeping a diversity of things, it provides a sort of comfort to them. At least it does to me.

The earliest collection I can recall was of twigs (supporting the belief that I have always been fascinated by nature). After that came bottlecaps, matchbooks, feathers, stamps and coins (paralleling my father's collections), books (paralleling both my parents' collections), Coke bottles, old medicinal products and bottles, "sea glass," water-worn stones, and then transitioned gradually to minerals, agates, and petrified wood. Some things I pick up because of the fond memories associated with them - I'm sentimental, like Gail.

One of the manifestations of the collector gene, I think, is a desire to take something away from every new experience or place. Another is a desire to have everything in multiples - if I develop an interest in something (e.g., Doc Martens shoes) I end up getting 15 pairs...there has to be a connection (I hope so at least! otherwise it's just a quirkiness of mine....)!

- Tracy

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PostPosted: Jul 20, 2009 09:01    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

Hi Jordi,

Yes, there is a psychologist on the forum :) In fact, I have long studied what Bob Jones referred to as the "collector instinct."

There are several competing forces at play in those with intense collections. By intense, I mean built by a passion to achieve some particular goal like having the "best, largest, most comprehensive, etc." collection. Some experts emphasize that people inherently collect to learn, but I tend to downplay this angle. Ultimately, our collections are an extension of our personal spaces, and frankly people are territorial animals.

My studies point to the conclusion that people collect for many reasons (and more than one can apply to any collector) but that it all boils down to it being an expression of tangible accomplishment. Humans are goal-oriented, and collecting minerals (or any collectible) satisfies many goals at once.

To me, the real interesting question is not whether there is a "collector personality" (there is), but what determines or influences what objects or "things" a person wants to pursue. The developmental aspect to collecting probably reveals more about our idiosyncratic drives than our basic decision to collect in the first place.

Cheers,

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PostPosted: Jul 20, 2009 10:34    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

Hi Jim, I don't wrote the text, it was from Bugrock. I just opened a new thread with it.

Anyway, I collect minerals and just minerals, I never collected nothing more than minerals and probably I will never collect nothing more than minerals. In fact I think that I'm dealing with minerals just to afford the expensive prices of the specimens I like ;-)

Why I collect minerals? is simple: I like them, I really like them, and some of them I like so much that for me it would be a pity don't see them never more, that's why I keep them, by the pleasure that them gives to me. As I said to Bluetriangles (John Veevaert), I like the minerals as a miracle by its magnificent perfection, its quiet beauty.

I like them as I like art, but at same time, due my formation, I'm extremely interested by everything related with the scientific part. So, for me, a very rare species with a nice architecture and good looking (still not too much) is the most.

Jordi



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PostPosted: Jul 20, 2009 13:01    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

Hi,

i think Jordi is right: To collect minerals it's not necessary to have a "collector gene" (though this may exist without a doubt). I never collected anything else but minerals. Well, ok, some diecast scale cars, but only red Ferraris and this "collection" includes only 10 cars - so you see that there was no real enthusiasm involved ;-)

And i was never interested in coins or stamps oder something else, only minerals, minerals and minerals. So i think that, in my case, it has nothing to do with a collector gene, it is the fascination of minerals because of their form and colour. Even after nearly two decades of collecting minerals and a good knowledge about them it's still like miracle to me that nature creates such wonderful things like crystals on matrix! I still wonder and philosophize (though i know about physics and chemistry) why such beautiful things evolve deep under the surface of the earth ... and that is so fascinating and impressive that it's the greatest thing in the world to be surrounded by some displays filled with beautiful minerals.

So i can say that you can be in love with minerals even when you miss the collector gene ;-)
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PostPosted: Jul 20, 2009 21:33    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

I became interested in collecting minerals at a very young age visiting my grandmother and her second husband (a geologist). I lived in Burbank, California and we would drive across the expanse of the Mojave desert to southern Utah where they lived at the time. I saw a collection in an attorney's office and was mesmerized by the shapes and colors. I remember going for walks with my "Grandpa Lee" and he would explain the geological wonders at our feet and in the magnificent Bryce Canyon and Zion National Parks. I would imagine finding mineral treasures as we drove back and forth across the desert, looking for anything that might be near the highway or returning someday to prospect in the distant hills.

I bought my first mineral when I was 12 years old and stopped collecting around age 15, found my first interesting rock (a coprolite!), while I was in college at the University of California at Santa Barbara (where I majored in art and took classes in astrophysics and calculus, but never took advantage of the great geology department there... ah, hindsight!), and rediscovered my mineral collecting passion in my late twenties shortly before moving to Tucson (no, I didn't move here because of the show!).

I am the only collector in my family (except for my wife, who is the only collector in her family!). I had a large collection of Matchbox and Hot Wheels, but they were for "play" and after my childhood I sold and gave almost all of them away. My dad always told me the importance of keeping things throughout one's life, and he held on to many things - a few "small collections," but he seldom looked at them and they were always kept in a couple of boxes in the closet. He would never call himself a collector, nor a hobbyist.

As for sharing the collection, over 75% of the "non-mineral people" who visit our home express an interest and amazement at the variety and beauty of minerals, but the majority of these people show more of an interest in the large "decorator" pieces we have in the living room or den than they do in our two mineral cabinets. I never bring up minerals unless they ask, and I quickly gauge whether they are interested or just being polite. The collection is for my wife and I to enjoy, and if others do as well, so much the better. I can be a very enthusiastic collector host with a receptive visitor!

I collect minerals because they are natural, visual pieces of art. It's an ever evolving learning experience, be it new worldwide discoveries or the basic mineralogical science of physical properties and habits. I also collect minerals because they remind me of my youth, places I have been, and of relatives and a friend long since passed away. Most importantly, it keeps me feeling young and helps make my life more exciting.

Greg
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PostPosted: Jul 22, 2009 12:45    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

Jim, From a psychology perspective, I wonder why some animals (crows, packrats...) collect trinkets? A lost wedding ring or coca cola bottle cap would seem to have no useful application for these species, yet nevertheless they collect them. This behaviour would be unlikely to evolve unless it conferred some biological advantage. Whatever that advantage is, it might apply to humans too, although we tend to explain our instincts in far more sophisticated terms!
Cheers,
Alfredo
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PostPosted: Jul 22, 2009 13:08    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

Alfredo,
I presume, based on your avatar, that ravens collect either hats or geologists. ;=)
Bob
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PostPosted: Jul 22, 2009 14:28    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

Geez Bob!! Good one!!!

I laughed out loud!

Here're some photos of rocks. The phosphophyllite is self-collected....

Ed



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PostPosted: Jul 22, 2009 14:37    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

Hi Alfredo and all,

Please don't misunderstand my comments to mean that all collectors have a "collector gene"; I only meant to convey that such a behavioral phenomenon does seem to exist.

Some birds do seem to "collect" trinkets (especially shiny objects), but my understanding is that this likely represents foraging behavior that is not selective. That is, the birds in questions are drawn to objects that stand out (and possibly could be food) but turn out not to be. Apparently, more experienced birds are more selective and learn to distinguish better. Other times, shiny pieces of debris is used for nest making.

Whether one has a collector gene or not, the primary motives for collecting seem universal. That was my point, and one of the universal drives is a sense of tangible accomplishment and adding to one's psychological territory. Many mineralogical writings, recent and past, have hinted or outright confirmed this as well. This behavioral drive is not a bad thing; indeed, as Alfredo noted, it may well be adaptive.

But, the point still stands... often times collecting minerals is probably not entirely about "appreciating nature and art" or "sentimentality" per se. The psychological drive is deeper than that. And remember, I'm not just a psychologist -- I'm also someone who's been bitten by the bug himself!

Cheers!

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PostPosted: Jul 23, 2009 01:17    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

Hello Jim,
As a psychologist would you think collecting falls in with the many other human pastimes dominated by the adrenaline, serotonin body chemistry thing? There is the adrenaline rush of the hunt for the mineral and finding it and acquiring it (Albeit in a shop, online or in the field) then the serotonin satisfaction of adding it to your collection and sitting back to admire it, This would also explain why a collection tends to span a whole lifetime, once you start collecting there is no end to it, there is always another thing to add to the collection, some new specimen to lust after, until again you get the Rush of acquisition and the satisfaction of ownership.

My mineral collecting has developed with my knowledge of minerals, the more I learn about them the more I feel the need to expand my collection, I collected a bit when I was young but didnt begin collecting minerals seriously until I was at university doing maths, its the geometrics that get me, especially where something weird has occured, Its why I have so many Phenakites, they give a good account of themselves in the etchings on the surface, I must have spent hundreds of hours gazing through my 10 x eye piece at Phenakite etchings, I have this one that is geometrically outrageous, some of its terminal faces are also the sides, its kind of hard to explain but its like the twinning has occured at 90 degrees to itself so the sides of one are the termination of the other and visa versa, A steaming hot cup of Java a 10x loupe and a pile of Phenakites is my idea of heaven
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PostPosted: Jul 23, 2009 10:24    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

Hi Nurbo,

Oooooo! Neuroscience and minerals... how fabulous! Indeed, neurochemistry comes into play. I would argue it has more to do with dopamine than other neurotransmitters, since dopamine is involved the brain's reward/reinforcement/pleasure loop. Dopamine is what feeds physical and psychological addictions. And let's face it, many collectors described their hobby as a healthy addiction. Of course, addiction may be too strong a term to describe most hobbyists. The increased tolerance you see in addictions would mean that "addicted collectors" would need to buy either progressively MORE or HIGHER QUALITY specimens to overcome the tolerance and maintain the pleasure reinforcement.

But that aside, my view of collectors is consistent with the opinions and thoughts of many people who have commented thus far by saying their specimens feed an appreciation for art, nature and a connection with sentimentality. Higher level functioning (neocortex) and emotional processing (limbic system) are actually intertwinned, and this may be why minerals satisfy so many innate drives. Let me explain.

The Limbic System - As therapsids evolved into mammals, neurological modifications created a group of structures referred to as the paleomammalian brain, or limbic system. This consists of the amygdala, hippocampus, parahippocampal gyrus, septum, cingulate gyrus, thalamic nuclei and related structures. It corresponds to the brain of most mammals, and especially the early ones. The limbic system is concerned with emotions and instincts, feeding, the flight or fight response, and sexual behavior. Everything in this emotional system is either “agreeable or disagreeable,” since survival depends on avoidance of pain and repetition of pleasure. When this part of the brain is stimulated with a mild electrical current various emotions and anomalous perceptions are produced. The limbic system appears to be the primary seat of emotion, attention and affective (emotionally-charged) memories. It helps determine valence (whether you feel positively or negatively towards something) and salience (what captures your attention), unpredictability, and creative behavior. It has vast interconnections with the neocortex (see below), so that the brain’s functions are neither purely limbic nor purely cortical but a mixture of both.

The Neocortex -- Recent mammals possess the most recent layer of neural tissue (not present in lower animals) called the neocortex, and it reaches its greatest extension in humans. The higher cognitive functions that distinguish humankind from other animals reside in the cortex. Experts refer to the neocortex as the mother of invention and the father of abstract thought. In humans, the neocortex takes up two-thirds of the total brain mass. Although all animals also have a neocortex, it is relatively small with few if any folds (indicating surface area, complexity and development).

So, when we study, pursue, acquire, exhibit and gaze upon minerals that appeal to us, we are likely experiencing a flood of activity within the limbic and neocortex systems. This produces mixed feelings and emotions about minerals and specific specimens.

The bottom line is that when non-collectors complain that we collectors have "rocks in our head" it's not too far from the truth!

Thanks,

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PostPosted: Jul 25, 2009 02:06    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

Thanks Jim, great answer. I do sometimes argue with myself about freewill versus neurochemistry and its always inconclusive. Whether we make our own decisions or are driven by these neural pleasure pain impulses is something I guess we will never know for sure. One thing we do know is that our collective interest in minerals is something we are clearly all very passionate about.

I used to collect classic vintage guitars but soon realised I had a choice between buying my own house or buying collectable guitars, I chose the house, the beauty of mineral collecting is it doesnt need to be expensive, it can be, but it doesnt need to be and as such can appeal to all ages and all incomes.
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PostPosted: Jul 26, 2009 12:45    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

Hi again, all

I thought I'd attached some pics of gem crystals (TN size) new to my collection: an unusual gem cluster of emerald from Pakistan and a d/t brazilianite (from the type locality) that made me think of John White's single crystal collection.

It is specimens like this about which I'm personally passionate. Can't wait for the next Tucson Show on gems and gem crystals! I plan on a special exhibit.

Cheers,

Jim



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PostPosted: Oct 06, 2009 18:25    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

Taking interest in biology, human nature, and the brain, I'd like to add to this thread (if it has not gotten too old).

I can easily see how collecting builds psychological real estate, but another fascinating component is the fact that minerals seem to be cross-culturally interesting. As a biologist, my theory is that human interest in art and aesthetics (which will include minerals) has adaptive roots.

One proposed beginning of human fascination with bright and rich colors is the need for early hominids to be able to identify ripe fruit. This may partly explain the seemingly innate human interest in minerals, which can share with fruit vibrant coloration as well as properties like clustering, symmetry, and reflectivity.

I also think that there is an adaptive basis for the seemingly innate human interest in symmetrical and geometric forms. I propose that this interest arose from an environmental demand on animal life to identify its own natural symmetries, so as to identify its own kinds, distinguish life from non-life, and identify numerous plant and animal resources that have unique symmetries. So, to me, initial hominid interest in color and form was all about making biologically relevant distinctions. For example what patterning and coloration indicates friend or foe, food or poison, healthy or unhealthy mate, ripe or unripe, etc.

What minerals have, particularly those with distinct crystal structures and gem-like qualities, is symmetry, color, and reflectivity. They are the only objects of the inanimate world that have features of the living world! Perhaps our interest in minerals is a generalization of our innate interest in life's form and beauty. This makes sense since we often describe minerals in terms of life. Crystals grow rather than precipitate or deposit, we often liken them to flowers, and many cultures have assigned to crystals powers relevant to human life, particularly in achieving balance, vigor, and health. The crystal, in essence, has become the only one the dead rocks that carries "life energy" or quality.
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PostPosted: Oct 19, 2009 22:42    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

I collect them because I like them !
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PostPosted: Oct 20, 2009 11:42    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

I am with JimB.
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PostPosted: Nov 09, 2009 22:33    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

I collect gems and minerals because it astounds me and fascinates me that nature can produce such fine things....some folks collect paintings and art..done by MAN..easy..anyone can paint a picture but to have nature do something so unique and beautiful it really baffles the mind..there is not supossed to be geometry and clean crisp lines in nature ..nature is supossed to be muddled with no fine lines but it does it every day with crystals and minerals...we are all like fine art collectors/connoisseurs but the difference is we all get/buy from the same artist..nature
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jorge santos garcia




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PostPosted: Nov 10, 2009 06:05    Post subject: Re: Why we collect?  

By the contrary, in nature nothing appears by chance, even though it may seem. Since nature is not somebody's artistic creation, it's laws and rules of formation, arrangment, growth and development are very rigid, based on mathematics (and subsidiary on fisics, chemistry, geometry) and the repetition of forms (simetry, fractals, etc)

If the basis of everything is the atom and it has a rigid geometry, there is no room for anachronistic experimentation or chaos.

The spiral shells shape follows a mathematic rule called logarithmic spiral and his growth follows a mathematic rule called gnomotic growth. The way leaves came out of the branchs follows the same growth pattern. There's a 'rule' for the beauty called the 'Fibonacci number' which explains the proportions of things we usually consider beautiful (even the human faces) and also explain the reproductive rates of animals (it was discovered trying to explain rabitts reproductive rates).

Mathematics in everywhere in nature. Chaos and disorder are the result of human intervention on nature.

Jorge
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