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Anatase specimen with unknown locality
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Tobi
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PostPosted: Apr 12, 2011 08:14    Post subject: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

Hi all,

i've got a silvery anatase specimen but no information about the locality. Has anyone an idea where this specimen could be from? Norway? Pakistan?

Cheers!
Tobi



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Jordi Fabre
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PostPosted: Apr 12, 2011 08:19    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

Not idea Tobias, sorry. Probably not from Norway nor Pakistan.

Jordi
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Jan Erik




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PostPosted: Apr 12, 2011 08:30    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

This Anatas does not comes from Norway. The matrix is totaly unknown to me. How big is the specimen? The well known localities from Hardangervidda and Valdres produces very different Anatas than pictured.
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alfredo
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PostPosted: Apr 12, 2011 08:40    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

I also agree with not Norway, nor Pakistan, but no idea from where.
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Tobi
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PostPosted: Apr 12, 2011 08:44    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

Hi again and thank you all for your answers - i know that it's nearly impossible to find out the locality if it is not provided. I got this from the collection of my uncle who unfortunately had no information about the locality. But i hope that maybe someone knows; guessing localites of an anatase specimen is maybe not that impossible as with calcite or quartz ...

The specimen measures 55 x 40 x 15 mm, the largest crystal 9 mm.
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PostPosted: Apr 12, 2011 08:45    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

Tobias Martin wrote:
i've got a silvery anatase specimen but no information about the locality. Has anyone an idea where this specimen could be from? Norway? Pakistan?

Albeit I'm not by far an anatase expert I think Jordi, Jan and Alfredo are right. Neither Norway nor Pakistan.

If you have the patience (and the time) I suggest you browse the anatase photos 150 pages at Mindat. I hope you'll be able to find something alike there. If not, try to post your message at Mindat's Message Board too.

Good luck!
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PostPosted: Apr 12, 2011 10:01    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

Tobias,
What is the matrix? Can you identify and maybe provide a photo of the back of the specimen? Definitely not Norway.
Bob
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Tobi
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PostPosted: Apr 12, 2011 10:23    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

@Bob: I'll try to take some more photos in the next days, but i don't think that this will help, the matrix completely looks like the parts of it you can see on the pictures that are yet posted ...

@Carles: Of course i'll browse Mindat before i resign, but i don't have so much time at the moment and thus i'm a little bit afraid of the number of pages ;-)

Showing the pictures here was just a spontaneous idea. I am no expert for anatase, so i hoped that the pictures could be maybe distinctive for a certain locality. But if not, putting on a lot of coffee and browsing the Mindat gallery will be the next step ... ;-)

Thanks again to all who gave answers on this thread - to exclude some localities is a help as well!
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alfredo
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PostPosted: Apr 12, 2011 10:41    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

Tobias, the only collector I know who specializes in worldwide anatases is Robert Rothenberg in New York. Perhaps if you send him your photo, he might have a good idea. I don't want to publish his e-mail address online without his permission, so send me a private e-mail (alfredo at mindat.org) and I'll put you in contact with him.
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Tobi
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PostPosted: Apr 12, 2011 12:10    Post subject: Maybe not anatase at all?  

Alfredo, thank you very much!

Mr. Rothenberg immediately responded after i sent him the pictures of the specimen, his answer:

"Your photos are quite nice - I cannot tell the size of the specimen, but I think it is larger than a micro. Most anatase (except some from Norway and Pakistan) are quite small. As to your specimen, it does not look like anatase. The shape of the crystals does not look right, nor the matrix. Anatase are usually on some other matrix - yours appear to be on a similar material."

I agree to his statement about the matrix, but what about the crystals? Again, i don't know much about anatase, but isn't that a typical crystal form for the species?
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PostPosted: Apr 12, 2011 17:01    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

Hello Tobias,
This is just a wild guess but could this be Arsenopyrite?
db
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PostPosted: Apr 12, 2011 23:53    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

Interesting guess, but to me the crystal surface is too smooth and shiny for arsenopyrite. What do the others say?
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PostPosted: Apr 13, 2011 02:05    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

I always had the slight feeling of Hematite, maybe from Isola d'Elba...?
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PostPosted: Apr 13, 2011 05:02    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

I too thought Hematite & perhaps from South Africa N'Chwaning mines, the redness in the matrix looks similar to Andradite Garnets you often see in the manganese.
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PostPosted: Apr 13, 2011 06:49    Post subject: Maybe hematite?  

@Jordi: I know it looks similar, but i own several hematite specimens from Rio Marina (Elba) and know quite well about them, and the crystal forms are different, none of the Elba hematites i've ever seen looks like that. But colour, luster and habit of the matrix are very similar, so i can understand your guess.

@Debbie: Hematite from N'Chwaning Mines, could be possible, or maybe Wessels Mine ... Anyone who is expert for South African minerals?
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PostPosted: Apr 13, 2011 07:11    Post subject: Managanese may be a lead...  

Debbie seems to be on to something here...

Hematite isn't tetragonal, and the angles and surface texture look wrong for Hausmannite.

But Braunite might fit, and similar-looking material from the Kalahari Manganese Fields (Wessels, N'Chwaning...) is found in the mindat gallery:
https://www.mindat.org/gallery.php?loc=14466&min=757

This is not to say that good crystals on a matrix of what seems to be more of the same material in massive form would necessarily have to come from there, of course! So just another guess. (Associated garnets would be plausible, though.)

Have you checked the hardness, and could you try to measure the density? What about streak (using a not so showy corner of the specimen)?

Cheers, Gerhard
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PostPosted: Apr 14, 2011 06:18    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

I think Gerhard is onto something here too ... :0)

I'm no expert but have an interest in minerals from this region it's not Hausmannite but Braunite II is quite likely, the streak test will determine this, Braunite is black & Hematite is red.
In 1995 Braunite II was found up to 3cm from Wessel mine associated with Andradite, Hausmannite & Ettringite (Bruce Cairncross - The Manganese Adventure).
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PostPosted: Feb 04, 2012 21:04    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

Somehow I missed this thread when it came through 9 months ago!

This certainly looks like hematite from N'Chwaning (#2) to me.

Tobi, please look down on the top of that most prominent crystal and see if it has four-fold or six- (or three-) fold symmetry. If the latter, I vote for hematite from N'Chwaning.

On quick reading of this thread, it seems everybody (but, near the end, Jordi) went along with your initial assumption of anatase, and therefore four-fold symmetry. That may be a fatal error of thinking....

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PostPosted: Feb 05, 2012 05:06    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

- The streak isn't black, but rather a slightly reddish brown.

- Hardness seems to be the same as hematite: Using an Elba hematite for hardness test showed that both specimens do not scratch each other in any way. (And braunite should slightly scratch hematite).

- The crystal symmetry is not good to diagnose, for no crystal is complete all around.

According to the results i would guess it is hematite (same hardness, reddish and not black streak) from a mine in South Africa.
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PostPosted: Feb 05, 2012 13:31    Post subject: Re: Anatase specimen with unknown locality  

HI to everybody! Yes, fully agree: it looks like an hematite. I don't know whether from the Elba Isle or from another locality, but the rust-red oxydation is very easy to be noticed. However defitely not an anatase or arsenopyrite. Now it's my time to say: forget these adventures!
Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.

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