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Scepters - (1)
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Scott LaBorde




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PostPosted: Feb 09, 2010 22:19    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

Hello?
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Jordi Fabre
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PostPosted: Feb 10, 2010 00:36    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

Scott,

Everybody is in Tucson now, extremely busy and with very bad Internet connections. Please be patient, people will be back in a few days....

Jordi
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Scott LaBorde




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PostPosted: Feb 10, 2010 07:52    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

Of course, I should have known! Thanks Jordi.
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John S. White
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PostPosted: Feb 10, 2010 09:11    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

This does not appear to be a scepter. It has no stem.
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Amir Akhavan




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PostPosted: Feb 10, 2010 17:49    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

@Scott
It certainly looks like a scepter - just the stem is missing - oops ;-)
I apparently have a much lower threshold than John when it comes to calling something a scepter.

I can see why you ask that question.
The surface of the prism faces looks like that of a skeleton/scepter, so the crystal might have assumed a "scepter mode of growth".
Just cut the crystal into two halves to check if the stem has been overgrown completely - just kidding.

You could X-ray it and might see a hint of something.
I've seen X-ray images of crystals, but I do not know how to do it properly and if it also works for complete crystals instead of slices.

Or maybe you are referring to the steps in the rhombohedral faces.
That alone would not turn it into a (reversed) scepter for me.

Amir

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Scott LaBorde




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PostPosted: Feb 11, 2010 08:41    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

Thank you John and Amir. Would you have any suggestions on which habit or combination of habits to call this crystal?
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Amir Akhavan




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PostPosted: Feb 12, 2010 14:46    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

The habit is simply "normal" (or "Maderan" if you want to show off with an odd term).

The fact that it has steps etc. doesn't justify giving it a special name.
But if you wish you are free to give it any name.
If I see a crystal like this I sometimes say they have "scepter habit" or "scepter-like habit" but I'm stretching the term "habit" quite a bit when I do that to describe the sum of normal habit, types of faces and surface patterns. Then I usually get corrected by others who point out my sloppiness (didn't you do so some time ago?).

Amir

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John S. White
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PostPosted: Feb 13, 2010 09:03    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

A problem is that even though you provided a number of fine photos, you neglected to include one of the base. If this is a true scepter with the stem broken off then I would be inclined to label it "scepterlike" as suggested by Amir. On the other hand it is not necessary to label all of the habits of one's quartz crystals unless they clearly are a good illustration of a particular type.

Hope to be leaving Tucson tomorrow. Our leader Jordi had his flight to Atlanta cancelled so he is facing a long flight home today via Minneapolis. Good luck Jordi!

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keldjarn




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PostPosted: Feb 13, 2010 16:31    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

I have mostly seen true scepters with a larger crystal in eptaxial growth on top of a more narrow stem of the same mineral in varieties of Quartz. But I have a unique 15 cm specimen from Virgem da Lapa with such a true sceptergrowth of blue Topaz. I have tried to enclose a picture of the specimen.
Knut



Sceptertopaz15cm.jpg
 Description:
 Viewed:  13910 Time(s)

Sceptertopaz15cm.jpg


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Tsinidis Tasos




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PostPosted: Feb 16, 2010 11:31    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

Just a small photo contribution from me on the smoky-amethyst scepters from the alpine type quartz veins of Kato Nevrokopi basin,Drama prefecture in Greece.


476.jpg
 Description:
A 7 cm group of smoky amethyst scepters
 Viewed:  13824 Time(s)

476.jpg



79.jpg
 Description:
A 4 cm tall perfect smoky-amethyst scepter
 Viewed:  13843 Time(s)

79.jpg



299.jpg
 Description:
A 12 cm tall smoky-amethyst scepter
 Viewed:  13798 Time(s)

299.jpg


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Tsinidis Tasos




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PostPosted: Feb 16, 2010 11:42    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

Also the only four known (and two colored) reverse scepter quartz crystals found in the same location (Kato Nevrokopi basin).


2009.jpg
 Description:
A 4 cm tall white-smoky reverse scepter
 Viewed:  13821 Time(s)

2009.jpg



1672.jpg
 Description:
A 7 cm smoky reverse scepter
 Viewed:  13802 Time(s)

1672.jpg



2616.jpg
 Description:
A 18 cm smoky reverse scepter with amethyst termination
 Viewed:  13835 Time(s)

2616.jpg


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Scott LaBorde




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PostPosted: Feb 16, 2010 13:26    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

Tsinidis, very nice specimens. I especially like the first photo with the smokey amethyst. Thanks for sharing.

Scott

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Terry Burtzlaff




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PostPosted: Feb 16, 2010 14:07    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

Here is one of my favorites - a Quartz scepter from Herkimer County, New York. While I don't know of any reverse scepters occuring with these, skeletal Quartz is fairly common in the pockets. The "cap" on some scepters is so transparent that the dark stem host crystal is clearly visible within.


01_021.JPG
 Description:
Quartz Scepter
Little Falls, Herkimer County, New York
1.5x7 cm.
 Viewed:  13769 Time(s)

01_021.JPG


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Luiz Menezes




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PostPosted: Feb 16, 2010 16:01    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

Hi Knut:

Your topaz scepter is very impressive but I think it is likely not from Virgem da Lapa; all crystals I have seen from the famous Xanda and Limoeiro mines show visible etching patterns on 2 opposite prism edges, and your specimen shows no etching. It also shows a darker blue color than the normal color from the Virgem da Lapa topaz.

When I return to Brazil next week I will try to contact Álvaro Lúcio to show him the photo and ask him about his opinion; during the time both mines were producing strong (1978 to 1981) Álvaro was very active on the mineral market, and I was still working at the Jacupiranga mine, so he has much more experience than I have with Virgem da Lapa topaz.

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Luiz
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keldjarn




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PostPosted: Feb 17, 2010 11:59    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

Hi Luiz,

Thanks for your comment and for wanting to verify or correct the locality info. It is one of the few specimens in my collection where I have not been able to locate the original label. I bought it at the Executive Inn (main building, second floor) show in Tucson 15 years ago from a Brazilian Dealer (probably from some younger dealers working for Àlvaro ?). It was said to be an older specimen from the Virgem da Lapa area. The Topaz is somewhat lighter in colour in artificiall light and has a few bottlegreen embedded Tourmalines.
I fully agree with your comment that the Topaz do not resemble the more common ones from Xanda or Limoeiro which are often partly etched. But coming from pocket-pegmatites the condition of one pocket or pegmatite may be different from another also in relation to hydrothermal etching of the crystals. If you can provide data to support another possible locality, I will be very grateful, but until then I will stick to the information provided by the Brazilian dealer.
Knut
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Luiz Menezes




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PostPosted: Feb 17, 2010 13:29    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

Hi Knut:

The green tourmalines are not visible on the photo, but their presence indicates that there are only 2 possibilitis: Virgem da Lapa (Xanda or Limoeiro) or Itinga (Teixeirinha mine); on all other localities blue or colorless or greenish or yellowish topaz are found in aquamarine-bearing pegmatites, where green tourmaline was never found, only schorl.

The Teixeirina mine was opened by 1995 and at that time it produced a small lot of fine blue topaz, according to one of my suppliers from Araçuaí, but I could never see this material; it was later re-opened in 2004 and since then has produced several pockets of blue topaz and green tourmalines, so there is a possibility that your specimen may be a part of an old production from Teixeirinha.

About the Brazilian dealer on the second floor on the Executive Inn the only one I remember is José Eduardo Barbosa (Gemological Center), that in 1997 had a room on the second floor on the aisle in front of the lobby (is that part that you consider the "main building"?); he always come with her daughter, Luciana, a short blonde woman; if he was your supplier it will be easy to check the locality because he is my friend and lives in Belo Horizonte also; all other Brazilian dealers from the Executive Inn that I remember are Valadares Minerals (my cousin Edson Endrigo), that had a room on the 1st floor on the annex building, and the Vasconcelos (Carlos always had a room on the first floor on the annex building, an Paulo has for 2 years a room on the second floor of the annex, just in front of the middle stairway).

Regards

Luiz
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keldjarn




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PostPosted: Feb 17, 2010 14:42    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

Hi Luiz,

Thanks for additonal information. I am sure the specimen was purchased on the second floor of the Executive Inn just on top of the lobby (room 202 ?). It was from a younger dealer and could have been from your cousin Edson (?). It surely was not for Carlos Barbosa. I knew him well and purchased many other specimens from him.
There is no doubt about the green tourmalines, but they are only visible as small dark dots in the lower part of the crystal.
The crystal was purchase before 1995 so that probably brings us back to one of the pegmatites at Virgem da Lapa a stated in my notes.
Thanks for your effort.

Knut
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Scott LaBorde




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PostPosted: Mar 10, 2011 11:28    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

I recently found a stash of material that I never cleaned up from an alpine-type fissure I dug just before the winter. I didn't realize what I found until just the other night after finally cleaning the material up.


x1_001.jpg
 Description:
Mica and quartz
 Viewed:  12559 Time(s)

x1_001.jpg



x2.jpg
 Description:
closeup of the quartz crystal from the previous picture.
 Viewed:  12515 Time(s)

x2.jpg



x3_001.jpg
 Description:
another rock crystal sceptre from the same fissure.
 Viewed:  12513 Time(s)

x3_001.jpg



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am mizunaka




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PostPosted: Apr 04, 2013 03:37    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

One of my favorite scepters.
Larger resolution version here: http://www.mindat.org/xpic.php?fname=0413258001362120633.jpg



SwissQtz.jpg
 Description:
Quartz
Illiez Valley, Wallis (Valais), Switzerland
10.0 x 3.8 cm
 Viewed:  9328 Time(s)

SwissQtz.jpg


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Pierre Joubert




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PostPosted: Apr 04, 2013 13:22    Post subject: Re: Scepters - (1)  

Scepters, any quartz lover's passion! Here are a few of ours, some acquired a few years ago, and others very recently.


P1100281.JPG
 Description:
Quartz scepter
Brandberg, Namibia
30 x 09 x 08 mm
 Viewed:  9212 Time(s)

P1100281.JPG



P1100277.JPG
 Description:
Quartz scepter
Brandberg, Namibia
30 x 09 x 08 mm
Same as above.
 Viewed:  9212 Time(s)

P1100277.JPG



P1100335.JPG
 Description:
Smoky quartz scepter
Northern Cape, South Africa
22 x 15 x 10 mm
 Viewed:  9218 Time(s)

P1100335.JPG



P1100269.JPG
 Description:
Quartz scepter
Brandberg, Namibia
26 x 05 x 04 mm
 Viewed:  9225 Time(s)

P1100269.JPG



P1100275.JPG
 Description:
Quartz scepter
Brandberg, Namibia
26 x 05 x 04 mm
 Viewed:  9247 Time(s)

P1100275.JPG



P1100350.JPG
 Description:
Smoky quartz scepter
Northern Cape, South Africa
18 x 12 x 08 mm
 Viewed:  9216 Time(s)

P1100350.JPG



P1100361.JPG
 Description:
Smoky quartz scepter
Northern Cape, South Africa
18 x 12 x 08 mm
Same as above
 Viewed:  9211 Time(s)

P1100361.JPG



P1100246.JPG
 Description:
Quartz scepter
Brandberg, Namibia
17 x 08 x 06 mm
 Viewed:  9226 Time(s)

P1100246.JPG



P1100266.JPG
 Description:
Quartz scepter
Brandberg, Namibia
17 x 08 x 06 mm
Same as above.
 Viewed:  9228 Time(s)

P1100266.JPG



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