FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[Roger Warin]

Hi,
It seems to me that such a topic has never been approached on this forum. That of the old labels. I was happy to photograph an old label amazonite (Pikes Peak, Colorado). Dimensions: 39 x 35 mm.
By enlarging the picture, there are many raw molecular formulas already in a primitive form. But aside are strange annotations. I interpret as the formula of amazonite for alchemists.
This is the first time I see these joint chemical and alchemical writings.
Surprising!
What do you think and how you interpret these signs?

Amazonenstein.
Pikes Peak Col.
KaO
Al2O3 6 SiO2
1879 Pech

The modern formula of amazonite (microcline) is KAlSi3O8
"Ka" stands for "Kalium" or Potassium (arable origin of this word, meaning "plant ashes" was Latinized by alchemists).
The raw elemental composition found on the label is rather vague, but the problem was not easy for the time.
Pech: mineral dealership in Berlin.
Roger.

[Roger Warin]

Hi,
A friend to whom I sent my picture gave me the right explanation.
It is not a question of alchemical symbols but crystallographic descriptions expressed in the Naumann’s notation with characteristic signs: "0", "P", "barred P" and "infinite". There is a correspondence table with Levy, Miller .... in the Treaty of Crystallography Mallard (Paris, 1879) p. 327 and following.
It is more sense. It remains for me to understand ...
Roger.

[Michael Shaw]

Roger,
I'm afraid I can't shed any more light on the interpretation of your label. However, I am a big fan of historical labels, and the one you have shown is very special and in remarkable condition for it's age. Do you also have the specimen to go with it? If so, it would be nice to see this amazonite.
Michael

[Montanpark]

[Pete Richards]

About the chemistry: Ka is K in modern notation, but this oxide should be K2O. Then K2O+Al2O3+6(SiO2)= K2Al2Si6O16=2(KAlSi3O8). What is on the label is just the formula expressed as individual oxides.

[Montanpark]

IMO it could be that the alleged a is a sloppy 2 - if you compare to the other a´s and 2´s - some old labels are a real mess wrt clear writing :-)

[Roger Warin]

Hi,
Thank you for your comments.
The pleasure of the photographer is photographing. These photos are a mode of expression. While some fans like to see their specimens pictured, other dealers, especially in big shows, refuse this practice. I still do not understand why. I assimilate this panel “Ban photographed” as no parking, so no watching. Why are they there? Maybe they are afraid that the public observes the sample price? I don’t bother me much these illegal bans.
Still, some amateurs are more favorable like this, which allowed me to shoot this amazonite (microcline) a few years ago. But unfortunately I do not have the stones that I photograph. My collection is made mostly of thin sections of meteorites observed in XPol light. This comes back to photos ... but these pics don’t interest you.
Here you see this beautiful amazonite corresponding at this oldest label.
Roger.

[Andreas Gerstenberg]

Hi,

that´s indeed a fine topic for me who likes old labels pretty much... So detailed information about chemical composition and other is not frequent on old labels but nevertheless not that rare. Let me show some examples.

Best regards
Andreas

[Roger Warin]

Hi Andreas,
Yes it is an exciting topic because it connects us to those who have taught us that science.
Freiberg is definitely a paradise for virtuous mineralogists ...
Here is a strange rock fell from the sky in Western Austria (Ensisheim) in 1492 and in France today
This label contains two letters “CL”. This question was put to me by the curator of the Museum of Uppsala (Sweden).
Here is my proposed answer that I sent him.
I invite you to review.

Aerolite d’Ensisheim
The term "aerolite" is typically a French name. This was the official word that meant meteorites.
The letter "d" is also an abbreviated French preposition. Thus, this a French label.
CL = Cordier Louis.
This label appears to me a piece of paper that identifies a meteoritic rock in a drawer. A simple information, with the signature of the scientist.
Cordier was a French geologist who has had some significance.
It was he who reorganized the rocks and minerals collections in MNHN Paris. Cordierite is named after him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Cordier
Roger.

[Montanpark]

Hi all,
very nice oldie Roger.
Must be a sample of the Ensisheim chondrite.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ensisheim_%28meteorite%29

Cheers
Roger