We use cookies to show content based on your preferences. If you continue to browse you accept their use and installation. More information. >

FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board
The place to share your mineralogical experiences


Spanish message board






Newest topics and users posts
29 Mar-09:43:41 Re: trying to find information on rose/pink quartz and tourmaline associations. (Josele)
29 Mar-09:31:55 Re: identification question (Bob Carnein)
29 Mar-08:09:52 Re: collection of tobi (Tobi)
29 Mar-07:25:48 Re: collection of volkmar stingl (Tobi)
29 Mar-06:20:21 Re: identification question (James Catmur)
29 Mar-00:03:53 Identification question (Jim Wilkinson)
28 Mar-23:16:36 Re: collection of volkmar stingl (Volkmar Stingl)
28 Mar-18:25:15 Re: collection of firmo espinar (Firmo Espinar)
28 Mar-09:37:50 Re: 2 unknowns co-occurring with caledonite, grand reef mine, az (Cfrench58)
27 Mar-19:47:08 Re: 2 unknowns co-occurring with caledonite, grand reef mine, az (Pete Richards)
27 Mar-16:15:44 Re: 2 unknowns co-occurring with caledonite, grand reef mine, az (Cfrench58)
27 Mar-15:18:59 Re: 2 unknowns co-occurring with caledonite, grand reef mine, az (Alfredo)
27 Mar-14:39:29 2 unknowns co-occurring with caledonite, grand reef mine, az (Cfrench58)
27 Mar-05:21:48 Re: the mim museum in beirut, lebanon (Mim Museum)
27 Mar-05:03:26 Re: trying to find information on rose/pink quartz and tourmaline associations. (Ning)
27 Mar-02:39:50 Re: the mim museum in beirut, lebanon (Tobi)
27 Mar-00:23:28 Re: collection of volkmar stingl (Volkmar Stingl)
26 Mar-00:53:41 Re: collection of volkmar stingl (Volkmar Stingl)
25 Mar-13:32:10 Re: collection of michael shaw (Michael Shaw)
25 Mar-00:25:58 The mizunaka collection - quartz (Am Mizunaka)
23 Mar-13:35:22 Re: collection of firmo espinar (Firmo Espinar)
22 Mar-08:32:28 Re: collection of michael shaw (Michael Shaw)
22 Mar-04:20:41 Re: the mim museum in beirut, lebanon (Mim Museum)
21 Mar-22:49:19 Re: green seam. Looks like it in a state of decay. (Ning)
21 Mar-22:47:40 Re: green seam. Looks like it in a state of decay. (Ning)

For lists of newest topics and postings click here


RSS RSS

View unanswered posts

Why and how to register

Index Index
 FAQFAQ RegisterRegister  Log inLog in
 {Forgotten your password?}Forgotten your password?  

Like
111817


The time now is Mar 29, 2024 09:57

Search for a textSearch for a text   

A general guide for using the Forum with some rules and tips
The information provided within this Forum about localities is only given to allow reference to them. Any visit to any of the localities requires you to obtain full permission and relevant information prior to your visit. FMF is strictly against any illicit activities related to collecting minerals.
Philadelphia Academy affaire
  
  Index -> The Ten Thousand Club
Like


View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message

Jordi Fabre
Overall coordinator of the Forum



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 4888
Location: Barcelona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Sep 19, 2007 05:31    Post subject: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

On last months, the topic of the sell of the Philadelphia Academy was dominant on the Mineral's community.

Considering that Denver Show is already passed and that several specimens from the Philadelphia's collection are already offered on line by few dealers, I would like to start a topic here, with several questions concerning this collection that I'm sure could be interesting for mineral collector's.

- Is correct or not to commercialize a collection built by donations of people who wished leave their collections to a public institution to be displayed for everybody?
It is a very delicate question, because the status of the collection was before its sell very bad: not displayed, several specimens lost, mixed labels, and a high number of specimens decaying by the bad care of them. So, what is the best: leave the collection fall down slowly in its drawers and not sell it or disperse it?

- Prices of each specimen should be increased considering its historical value or the real specimen's value should mark its price outside the history related with them? In other words, what is the real price of a mineral specimen: its market's value or its market value highly increased by its "pedigree" value?

- How about the future of Museum's collections suffering a similar case of the Philadelphia Academy's collection?. They could be sold as the Philadelphia Academy specimens, or it would be necessary that the Mineralogical community push strongly to avoid it? If it happens, what to do then to save this collections that otherwise will decay and die?.

Not easy answer for no one of my questions, I know it. Hopefully different people express here their opinions, helping to clarify this extremely complicated case.

Jordi
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

lluis




Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 710

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Sep 19, 2007 08:21    Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

Dear Jordi/List

I suppose that I will answer breathing from my wound

-Is my firm opinion that a collection donated to a museum with the condition to be kept as a collection should be kept and cured.
If not, museum should tell the donator that the museum could not accomplish, and donator will act knowing that. Or if he could not kept, return to heirs.
If the museum still sells the collection, I suppose that in USA it could be sued, and probably forced to return the goods to the donator or to his heirs. (By the way, why are the chimeneys of the Escola del treball and the clock still working :-) ? )

My uncle donated an art collection to a museum in Barcelona, with condition that it should be exposed in this museum and never be separated. The agreement lasted around 5 years...
Needless to say what my opinion is (they practically killed my uncle due to the sorrow that produce to him)
By the way, two other museums, in Spain, received also donations from him and maintained the collection as stated. I am very grateful to them.

-That said, if a piece is sold, market places its value.
I probably will pay more for a pedigreed piece, but if I know that comes from such a missbehaviour, I will never buy.
For me would like to buy a stolen piece.

-Well, museums should rise founds from any activity, not exactly by selling the donated collections
One way could be permitting people to visit the pieces not on display (and asking for a fee), or spare money giving to lesser museums that could care of them, and not accepting more donations if they could not accomplish with their promises.

And that is nothing if you go to art museums, or archaeological museums....
I could present some examples if desired......
The panorame there is just terrorrific (not exactly terrific :-( )

With best wishes

Lluís
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Tracy




Joined: 15 Sep 2006
Posts: 551
Location: Toronto


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Sep 19, 2007 21:53    Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

This is an interesting topic and one that I regard with a healthy amount of cynicism. I will likely end up taking an unpopular stance on the subject.

The first question that must be addressed is WHY the individual is donating his/her collection in the first place. If the intention is to offer something that others will enjoy and lean from as a whole - for example, the collector who specialized in minerals from a particular region or some similar theme - then the entity as a whole should be preserved as is, at least for a while, to pass that knowledge on to visitors of the collection. But after a number of years has passed, and unless the collector is very well known in minerals history, I see no reason why a collection should not be distributed to others, because at that point the individual pieces might be better appreciated (and more educational) than the whole collection.

What's more, if the only purpose in donating a collection is for the collector to be "immortalized," in my opinion there is even less reason to keep a collection intact forever (and likewise if the donation was made simply as a gift to enhance the value of the museum). And, one has to wonder whether the recent surge in mineral collecting "without interest in the science" (to paraphrase what has been said in other discussions) will lead to a decrease in the meaningfulness of pedigrees. Perhaps we will come to a point where donations of collections - assembled simply because the collector had the funds to accumulate lots of expensive specimens and not necessarily in any organized or structured way - will become so commonplace that "pedigrees" lose their meaning and value. At this point in time I like pedigreed specimens because they are "real" pieces of the history of minerals, and/or links to great collectors of the past, but I wonder whether future generations will feel the same way.

In any case, I believe it should be the responsibility of the accepting museum to clearly consider any potential disposition of a collection (to the extent that it can be predicted), and to discuss it thoroughly with the donator, before accepting the collection in the first place.

Just some late-night thoughts...
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Carles Curto




Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Barcelona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Sep 20, 2007 06:44    Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

First of all I must express I don’t exactly know how and why Philadelphia decide to trade its mineral (or an important part of it) collection, but one thing must be clear, Museums exist to assure the continuity on time of the most conspicuous historical and scientific heritage and this must be strictly considered before to accept an offer. If the museum don't conserve and correctly manage its patrimony there will haven't donations of new particular collections.

It is truth, a museum collection is not a closed, “finished” item. Far of this, it is in constant change and this change involves what the collection is (and must be), how it must grow and how it must be managed. The managing can include, if the museum decides it is the best for collections, to expurgate, to change or to trade, but in any case, total guarantees of honesty, suitability, correction of procedure and good practices are absolutely necessary.

Every one of the records on a collection, when it is accurately documented, relates both scientific and historical (history of science and history of the museum and the community where it is implanted) aspects. Perhaps in a concrete museum some of collections aren’t mineralogically important but historical aspects mustn’t be neglect. At this point of view, conditions of donation are substantial and the people in charge must have it always present.

In case of Philadelphia some questions appear as important: What was the patrimonial weight of the traded minerals of Philadelphia museum? Which is the benefit (museological, museographical and scientific, not economic, benefit) for the Museum? Who and why decides that a conspicuous part of the collection is not necessary? Know those persons the real importance of the collections? Are they curators or mineralogist? Are they merely executive managers? It is a significant increase of prestige for the museum before collections left it?

They are only some few between a lot of possible questions but, as a person lied to the museums world, I'm affected and I really like to have clear answers.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

John S. White
Site Admin



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1295
Location: Stewartstown, Pennsylvania, USA


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Sep 23, 2007 06:56    Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

It is with a great deal of pain that I witness the selling of the minerals from the collection of the Philadelphia Academy of Natural Sciences. I, along with many others, fought hard to prevent this from occurring, but the negotiations had been in process long before I discovered that the Academy was determined to sell its minerals. The then president (now gone, I am happy to report) was dazzled by dollar signs - he wanted the five or so million dollars that an appraiser allegedly told him the collection was worth.

It was claimed that the original intention of the Academy was to place the collection in another institution but realistically there was no possibility of that because there is no institution that could have afforded it, especially when much of the collection would have been redundant.

My opposition to the sale was considerably tempered by the knowledge that the collection had for many decades been criminally mismanaged. It was not properly catalogued, it was not properly housed, it had been neglected and abused, specimens were stolen and cabinets dirty and falling apart. Virtually none of it was on exhibit and it was not accessible to scholars for research and study. In a very real sense the minerals were saved from further indignities by being sold.

However, not all of the collection was sold. Part of the collection had been given with the condition that the Academy could not dispose of it, and so at first only the other parts of the collection were taken by the dealers who ended up buying that portion. A court was to decide about whether or not the rest (essentially, the Vaux minerals) could be sold in spite of the restrictions imposed by the bequest. In the meantime a new president was appointed and, to his credit, he immediately recognized that the Academy should not dispose of the Vaux minerals and the sale effort died with that determination. The new president has promised that the remaining minerals will be appropriately curated and we have every reason to believe that this will occur. Many will be watching to see if this does, indeed, occur.

One has to wonder how any museum president like the former president of the Academy could expect to attract public support when collections in its care are criminally neglected and then sold. How could anyone be persuaded to provide gifts of money or specimens to such an institution? Particularly when there were even prohibitions on the sale of at least some of the minerals in the collection.

TAK makes some very good points in her comments and museums today are very much aware of the fact that they cannot simply accept everything that is offered to them. And, they are largely prohibited anymore from accepting gifts with conditions attached which limit the museum's ability to dispose of some or all of the items donated. There is nothing wrong with the motivation for giving being a desire to be immortalized, but the immortalization may have to take a different form today that it once did. In most cases today, museum labels carry the name of the donor and that may be the best that the donor can hope for.

I am sure there will be much more written on this subject and I look forward to seeing what contributors have to say.

_________________
John S. White
aka Rondinaire
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

James Catmur
Site Admin



Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 1341
Location: Cambridge


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2007 07:41    Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

In the UK we have a body called the National Trust that aims to preserve our landsacpe and unique architecture, and you can leave them land or property in your will. But if you do you must also provide a means to maintain what you leave them, for example rent from the land or funds for the upkeep of the property. This is similar I think to how some land trusts run in the US.

I wonder if a museum would accept minerals with a condition on them if the funds for their upkeep were also provided? Then it could be made clear that once the funds are exhausted they could do as they see fit with them.

In the case of the Philidelphia Academy, I do feel that it is better in some senses to pass this collection on than to let it decay, but that it should have gone to another institution. When I was a school boy there was a collection of minerals in the school basement that had been left to 'rot' - the cases were damaged, pieces missing, labels mixed up. I approached the school some years ago to see if I could help restore it (my memory was that it was a minor collection, but historical) - the bad news was that they had sold it, but the good news was that it had gone to a High School collection so was now (I hope) being cared for.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Jordi Fabre
Overall coordinator of the Forum



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 4888
Location: Barcelona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 11, 2007 14:11    Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

My good friend Rick Turner kindly gave to me permission to publish here a very interesting text concerning the topic of the Philadelphia Academy that he wrote on the Newsletter No 50, March 2007, bulletin of the great Russell Society: https://www.russellsoc.org/

Below is the text as well as an icon of the cover of the Russell's Society issue where the article is. Enjoy!

Jordi



TheRusellSociety_rombo.jpg
 Description:
Russell Society bulletin cover
 Viewed:  40751 Time(s)

TheRusellSociety_rombo.jpg



TheRusellSociety_text.jpg
 Description:
Rick Turner's text about the sale of the mineral collection of the Philadelphia Academy
 Viewed:  40732 Time(s)

TheRusellSociety_text.jpg


Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Farlang




Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Netherlands/USA

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 19, 2007 06:25    Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

A very interesting topic indeed. Sorry to have been absent, we are getting very close to the launch of our own platform (2 months or so) and there is so much to do.

point 3: market value. In my view, market value INCLUDES pedigree. I do not see them as separate entities. A discussion about what should/should not be a proper price is useless. If the market does not value pedigree.. well so be it, values/prices have always changed depending on the fashion of the time.

1+2) Enough has been said about Philadelphia. The question is, what will happen in other museums. From experience I know that the California Academy of Sciences is NOT going to exhibit any minerals, when their new building opens next year. Making place for ecology, protection of rainforests, oceans etc etc. And let's face it: avid collector as I am... but if a museum chooses to educate the public about the depletion of oceans, nature consevation, global warming, then yes.. we need to do that *now*. The matter is not that you shift the focus of your museum, the matter is how you implement your collections into these changing themes.

Mining and its consequences (or not) for one. Star showing of top minerals, gemstones, jewelry is another: it isnot a coincidence that both the Carnegie and Houston have opened up a gem vault in the last 2 years. Do I love the old fashioned museums where you can still "discover" "stuff" as I saw in the Fersman in Moscow, of the Zoological museum in St. Petersburgh.. yes.. absolutely.. but it's also nostalgia.

Now what I object to is the trend of many museums to go "virtual" inside their museums. That is such a web application and a great addition to the museum itself. Instead of just showing images online; new virtual games, videos, interactivity etc etc.. should be built. Leaving the museum itself for.. well .. "objects".

About selling collections and donating. I do not think there is anything wrong in wanting to be immortalized. People rarely do things for altruistic reasons so as long as "interests" go parallel, there is no reason why one cannot help the other. Whether a museum should except the constraints to a particular donation is a whole different story that John White pointed to.

One seems to forget there can be another reason to donate: tax deductions. Especially with estate planning, inheritance tax etc.. this can be quite a powerful tool.

Should we keep collections inside a museum ? I am totally in favour of it. In fact that is why we will highlight natural history collections on our own website *for free* as long as they deal with our topic we are focused on: gemstones. Several museums are giving us images, and we love to make as much publicity for them as possible.

Gemstones are the "sexiest" mineral objects for the bigger audience and with "sexy" you draw in the crowd to show them the "less sexy stuff" that is equally interesting (or even more.. but takes a bit more time to explain, and with our ADD-like society, time is what you do NOT have).

However in order to keep collections inside museums, I fear one needs a paradigm shift in terms of what is a smart way of marketing them.. and that brings us back to older discussions we have had before about collections and collectors: how to deal with a changing society.

So is it intrinsically bad to sell a collection.. like with everything it depends. If the director of a museum does not have the vision and lacks the creativity to "do something" with it, that appeals to a changing public and uses ALL forms of communication in an integrated, holistic manner (which I seldom see happening.. if even ever) integrates a mineral collection into the themes that are important today.. (and really.. that is NOT so difficult)..
then well.. if it means the collection rots away, it is better off being preserved by selling it.

And like this lady in Switserland, who will build her own museum in Freiburg (?) and bought anything and everything she could put her hands on, you can also see the pendulum swing the other way.... talk about wanting to immortalize yourself being a good thing perhaps ? :-)

As with everything.. it all depends.. and no mineral collection in a museum SHOULD HAVE TO rot away.. or be sold. It all depends how you create a winning solution out of the cards you are dealt with (as a director).. and being smart enough to not believe all the fads of today, although you have to very well implement and depend on them to survive.

Acting in a smart manner is something completely different than believing your own marketing nonsense.. but unfortunately it seems very few people are blessed with that insight.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Farlang




Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Netherlands/USA

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 19, 2007 06:43    Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

In a separate comment,after having read the Russel document:

The writer basically argues in favour of consolidation. Nothing new in a market with too many players, too little revenue and too little demand. And this could be ONE potential path: to have a number of museums being "branded" as THE mineral collections, and consolidate what is really really important, and sell of the rest.

That also implies that museums should more and more operate in a network, because what is happening to mineral collections obviously is also happening to a lot of other type of (more niche) collections. In other words perhaps a consolidation wave will go through all areas and means a re-focusing of museums on a particular theme. Once again this is no different from the consolidation waves in occurring in business... where generalist companies sell of plants that are bought by specialist companies.

This may or may not have success and really depends on the execution. There is nothing against being a generalist museum, but one way or another you're gonna need to make your image, your "brand" clear to the public if you want to get the visitors, have sponsors for special exhibits and get additional funding elsewhere (the sexier you are, the easier it is to get funding of course, both in Europe and the USA).

So while consolidation is a potential path, it by NO MEANS is the only path !!!! The Russell document fails to provide an analysis before giving the solution. The solution is *not*: donate the collection to others.. the solution is: what are mechanisms and methods to create a "unique value proposition" for your own museum collection. How can this be made clear in a 30 second soundbite in a compelling manner. How can we integrate our efforts with other museums, other organizations, local government etc etc etc. Every museum will have to find its own unique solution based on its own strengths.

It means.. start with the beginning and really *think and analyze*. Then come up with a solution. Not: one trend is "evil" let's replace it by another cookie cutter solution. Philadelphia could be the beginning of a nasty trend. It could also be the beginning of a wake-up call to find better solutions. It all depends what you do with the experience.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

lluis




Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 710

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 20, 2007 12:50    Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

Dear Farlang/List

I suppose that I bassically agree with you in all points, except in what should be done in a donation to a museum.

If the donation was donated without conditions and was no longer want, it should be returned to the heirs of donator.
If extinct, well, then they could proceed as they want.

If the collection was donated with conditions, e.g., to be cured, well, have thought twice in what that means....If not wanted, returned to the heirs of donator. If no heirs, to a museum that will cure it, or maintain the collection as was agreed.

That is my perception of honesty in those cases.

As you say, a collection at the end is money.

With best wishes

Lluís
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Farlang




Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Netherlands/USA

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 22, 2007 05:57    Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

Hola Lluis,

Espero que estes bien. Me llamo Patrick Slavenburg. At present I am living in Salamanca and in the Netherlands .... asi que hablo un poco espanol ;-)

Patrick




lluis wrote:
______________________________________________________________________

> Dear Farlang/List
>
> I suppose that I bassically agree with you in all points, except in what
> should be done in a donation to a museum.
>
> If the donation was donated without conditions and was no longer want, it
> should be returned to the heirs of donator.
> If extinct, well, then they could proceed as they want.
>
> If the collection was donated with conditions, e.g., to be cured, well,
> have thought twice in what that means....If not wanted, returned to the
> heirs of donator. If no heirs, to a museum that will cure it, or maintain
> the collection as was agreed.
>
> That is my perception of honesty in those cases.
>
> As you say, a collection at the end is money.
>
> With best wishes
>
> Lluís
______________________________________________________________________
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

lluis




Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 710

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 22, 2007 15:22    Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

Hola, Patrick
Hi Patrick

Bueno, Salamanca es realmente bonita, por las fotos que he visto.
Y Holanda es preciosa. O sease, que te envidio :-)
Well, Salamanca looks really nice on the photos that I saw and Holland is wonderful, so I envy you :-)

Soy de Barcelona, y conozco a algunos compatriotas tuyos, pero en numismática.
Si vienes por Barcelona, dímelo y te recojo y charlamos (estás invitado a comer, faltaría más!)
I'm from Barcelona and I know some other Dutch, but related with numismatic. If you visit Barcelona, please letting me know, I will pick you up and we talk (and guest to eat, of course)

And, by the way, your Spanish is far better than my English.....

Y si Jordi te puede dar mi mail privado, cuando quieras, hablamos.
And if Jordi can give to you my private mail, we talk when you want

With best wishes

Lluís
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Farlang




Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Netherlands/USA

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 23, 2007 03:55    Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

Hola Lluis,

muy aimable gracias, y igualmentes estas bienvenido a Salamanca (no se exactamente cuanto tiempo quedare aqui) y si tienes razon.. es lindissimo... tiene mucho caracter !
OK tampoco quiero llenar estos paginas con temas no apropriadas.. pero si quisse responder a tu invitacion muy aimable. Asi que si charlamos !

Patrick

Thanks Lluis very much and you are equally invited to come to Salamanca and have dinner (but I am not sure how long we will stay here) and you're right it's a beautiful city !
I don't want to fill the forum with messages that are not relevant to the discussion, but ofcourse I had to respond to such a nice invitation !

Patrick
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Pete Modreski
Site Admin



Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 709
Location: Denver, Colorado


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 25, 2007 14:58    Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

I've meant to write back to say that I really have appreciated reading some of the well-considered posts on this topic, especially the editorial that Jorde forwarded written by Rick Turner to the Russell Society, and the one posted by Farlang--I thought many of his points were particularly valid and well stated.

A thought; although of course the intrinsic value of an important historic specimen resides in the specimen itself, and likewise for a whole assembled collection, much value can also be captured and more widely disseminated via photography accompanied by written descriptions. After all that has transpired and been written about the disposition of the collections of the Philadelphia Academy, reading these several posts made me think about how valuable it would be if that entire collection (both the specimens still retained by the Academy, those that have been transferred to other institutions, and those sold to the dealer consortium) could be documented and made publicly accessible via digital photography and specimen descriptions. (Of course, in practicality not the entire thousands of specimens, but the highlights.) A photographic record of the collection could well be the subject of a printed volume (such as a special issue of MR, or otherwise) as well as being posted on a website; either of these would be most valuable, and I would love to see either, to learn just what was in the collection. I've seen some of the pieces on display by the dealers at the Denver Show, and will see more in Tucson, but it would be superb to see what "all the collection" included before dispersal. Perhaps something like this (a publication) is even in the works?

The same, of course, could and should be done for all of the major mineral collections of the institutions in the world. Not only would this more widely distribute knowledge of what is in the collections, but it would serve as a public archive in case of loss by fire, natural disaster, theft, or just plain neglect. Of course, those collections being given least curatorial attention and in the most need of documentation this way, are probably the ones least likely to have such a documentation program ongoing.

Pete Modreski, Denver CO
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Jordi Fabre
Overall coordinator of the Forum



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 4888
Location: Barcelona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 25, 2007 16:55    Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

Pete,

Just a short note to explain that when we received the task to deal with Folch's duplicates we decided to preserve all labels, both handwritten labels and records and all them are actually on our files digitalized and organized to be used for Museums or Institutions if some of they need it.

It take a lot of work to do it but is my opinion that this historical treasure should be saved.

Jordi
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Farlang




Joined: 26 May 2007
Posts: 31
Location: Netherlands/USA

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Nov 01, 2007 17:17    Post subject: Re: Philadelphia Academy affaire  

With increasingly lower cost for technology, there are probably ways to mass-photograph these specimens against a cost that is not too high. In fact there are different cages and domes available for producing catalogues of your products of your online store.

It would really not cost that much to pull the labels through a scanner and serial-photograph the specimens, and upload the whole colleciton, on many of the image databases that you find online. In fact it would probably not be unreasonable, to include that cost as a markup of the sale. It also helps the dealers sell their inventory easier, and in any case can be a pre-condition for obtaining that collection.

Just like you start to see the same with rare books (I know that the Dutch National Library is bringing its integral collection of.. 26 (?) million books and documents online) including many precious books) where many organizations mass-scan their books, one can imagine applying the use of new technologies to create image catalogs of 100.000nds of museum pieces.

With more sophisticated search technology (pattern recognition of images, or simply smart annotation search) imagine what can happen if you start connecting all these databases..

So.. I think it's a very good idea, and together with e.g. catalogues of older collections or collections of labels that are searchable of many private collections, you can probably start tracing back specimens as well.

And then... we aren't even talking about a more semantic web: web 3.0 !! :-) :-) :-)
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   
Display posts from previous:   
   Index -> The Ten Thousand Club   All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1
    

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


All pictures, text, design © Forum FMF 2006-2024


Powered by FMF