We use cookies to show content based on your preferences. If you continue to browse you accept their use and installation. More information. >

FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board
The place to share your mineralogical experiences

FMF English Forum is moderated by John S. White and Peter Megaw
 

Spanish message board






Newest topics and users posts
21 Jul-00:23:01 Re: all the diamonds one could fill your house with - and more - so near...yet so far..... (Justin Hickok)
21 Jul-00:19:50 Re: glass or something else? (Justin Hickok)
20 Jul-21:47:30 Re: sainte marie-aux-mines show 2018 (Roger Warin)
20 Jul-21:35:47 Re: sainte marie-aux-mines show 2018 (Roger Warin)
20 Jul-21:23:43 Re: sainte marie-aux-mines show 2018 (Roger Warin)
20 Jul-16:14:13 Re: glass or something else? (Vic Rzonca)
20 Jul-14:12:47 The mizunaka collection - orthoclase (Am Mizunaka)
20 Jul-13:25:34 Re: all the diamonds one could fill your house with - and more - so near...yet so far..... (Peter Lemkin)
20 Jul-11:59:54 Re: glass or something else? (Justin Hickok)
20 Jul-11:09:23 Re: all the diamonds one could fill your house with - and more - so near...yet so far..... (Justin Hickok)
20 Jul-11:08:35 Re: all the diamonds one could fill your house with - and more - so near...yet so far..... (Justin Hickok)
20 Jul-00:28:07 Re: sainte marie-aux-mines show 2018 (Roger Warin)
20 Jul-00:20:30 Re: sainte marie-aux-mines show 2018 (Roger Warin)
20 Jul-00:02:38 Re: sainte marie-aux-mines show 2018 (Roger Warin)
19 Jul-15:40:28 Re: sainte marie-aux-mines show 2018 (Roger Warin)
18 Jul-16:00:11 The mizunaka collection - quartz (Am Mizunaka)
18 Jul-10:27:54 Re: sainte marie-aux-mines show 2018 (Roger Warin)
17 Jul-14:00:44 Re: sainte marie-aux-mines show 2018 (Roger Warin)
17 Jul-13:38:16 Re: all the diamonds one could fill your house with - and more - so near...yet so far..... (Peter Lemkin)
17 Jul-11:37:24 Re: collection of heimo hellwig (Heimo Hellwig)
17 Jul-10:20:42 Re: sainte marie-aux-mines show 2018 (Roger Warin)
17 Jul-08:53:53 Re: franjungle collection (Franjungle)
17 Jul-07:39:08 Re: collection of heimo hellwig (Pierre Joubert)
17 Jul-06:08:55 Re: collection of fiebre verde - chivor (#370) (Fiebre Verde)
17 Jul-05:50:56 All the diamonds one could fill your house with - and more - so near...yet so far..... (Peter Lemkin)

For lists of newest topics and postings click here


RSS RSS

View unanswered posts

Why and how to register

Index Index
 FAQFAQ RegisterRegister  Log inLog in
 {Forgotten your password?}Forgotten your password?  

Like
44166


The time now is Jul 21, 2018 12:07

Search for a textSearch for a text   

A general guide for using the Forum with some rules and tips
Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??
  Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
  Index -> What is it? - Where is it from?
Like
7


View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message

alfredo
Site Admin



Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 696
Location: New York


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 16, 2018 06:24    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

Just guessing here, but what if a quartz contained microscopic hollow tubes and metallic gold was artificially introduced? There are such techniques known in the gemstone industry, for example to introduce metallic copper into feldspar crystals.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

zbhjzm




Joined: 18 Dec 2016
Posts: 139

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 16, 2018 07:35    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

alfredo wrote:
Just guessing here, but what if a quartz contained microscopic hollow tubes and metallic gold was artificially introduced? There are such techniques known in the gemstone industry, for example to introduce metallic copper into feldspar crystals.

I don't know if there are such techniques for quartz.
But in this case ,some of the inclusions are so well inside the quartz that I don't see a way they can be artificially introduced...
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Kevin Schofield




Joined: 05 Jan 2018
Posts: 39
Location: Houston TX

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 16, 2018 08:29    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

Now you have several of them, maybe time to do some destructive testing to answer the question definitively by getting to physical grips with it rather than continuing to speculate over hi-mag photographs?
_________________
Veni, Vidi, Emi
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

zbhjzm




Joined: 18 Dec 2016
Posts: 139

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 16, 2018 08:55    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

Kevin Schofield wrote:
Now you have several of them, maybe time to do some destructive testing to answer the question definitively by getting to physical grips with it rather than continuing to speculate over hi-mag photographs?

I'll try to find a lab and see what kinds of testing they can do. If destructive testing is necessary, I might be willing to do it...
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

alfredo
Site Admin



Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 696
Location: New York


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 16, 2018 15:04    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

Some of your previous photos from 2016 seem to show cylindrical hollow tubes in quartz: for example http://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/download.php?id=82403
I think it would be possible to introduce metals throughout a crystal by means of such tubes, not just close to the surface of the quartz.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

zbhjzm




Joined: 18 Dec 2016
Posts: 139

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 16, 2018 22:09    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

alfredo wrote:
Some of your previous photos from 2016 seem to show cylindrical hollow tubes in quartz: for example http://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/download.php?id=82403
I think it would be possible to introduce metals throughout a crystal by means of such tubes, not just close to the surface of the quartz.

I have never seen quartz with such intricate tubes. If there is indeed something like that, it might worth much more than quartz with gold inclusions.



7.JPG
 Description:
 Viewed:  1274 Time(s)

7.JPG


Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

zbhjzm




Joined: 18 Dec 2016
Posts: 139

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 22, 2018 23:11    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

I sent one of the stones for an XRD test. The result showed that the sample did not contain gold but contained a large amount of Cr,Mn and Fe. So, could the inclusions be Chromite or some type of unknown mineral?


201806231119393.jpg
 Description:
 Viewed:  1119 Time(s)

201806231119393.jpg


Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Duncan Miller




Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 115
Location: Cape Town


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 23, 2018 03:38    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

XRD or XRF analysis? Parts per million look like XRF results, and they are not large amounts. Are you sure the matrix is quartz and not glass?
_________________
Duncan Miller
Cape Town, South Africa
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

zbhjzm




Joined: 18 Dec 2016
Posts: 139

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 23, 2018 06:11    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

Relatively "large amount" , because the hair-like inclusions only have very tiny exposed ends on the surface of the stone for testing.
I'm sure the stone is quartz. It's hard enough to scratch glass and it is doubly refractive, I need to use a polarizer filter to take the micro pics, otherwise the image will be doubled.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

zbhjzm




Joined: 18 Dec 2016
Posts: 139

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 23, 2018 06:31    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

And yes ,It is XRF ,not XRD....
Due to the stone's shape and size , it doesn't fit in the large machines, so they tested it by a Handheld XRF metal Analyzer, but It can only identify metal elements.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Pete Richards
Site Admin



Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 598
Location: Northeast Ohio


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 23, 2018 16:27    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

So one wonders what "ppm" means - parts per million of what? The analyses shown account for only about 1000 ppm, or 0.1%. Does the test analyze silica? Is it the other 99.9%? If not, what?

You need a test such as SEM/EDS that can analyze the composition only on the outcrop areas of the inclusions. And you may need to sacrifice a specimen to get a flat slab produced that has maximal exposure of the inclusions of interest to get best results.

_________________
Collecting and studying crystals with interesting habits, twinning, and epitaxy
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

zbhjzm




Joined: 18 Dec 2016
Posts: 139

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 23, 2018 20:23    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

I didn't want to do destructive tests on the stone, that's why I chose the handheld XRD analyzer to do the test. The analyzer can only identify metal elements, so it does not analyze silica. But, at least now we know for sure that the inclusions are not gold.
I searched minerals by chemical composition on mindat , didn't find any thing quite similar to the inclusions.
I'm not sure if the stones worth further study , especially when it involves destructive tests.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Peter Lemkin




Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 127
Location: Prague

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 24, 2018 08:25    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

I'm not sure you will get much further without breaking one open and extracting the threads for further testing. As they are not gold, you are not destroying something very precious. As to a new mineral - I highly doubt it. Can't the person who sold them too you tell you where they are from and what other minerals are found in the area around the quartz? I note it seems to have some silver content too. If you can get a piece out, Raman spectrography might tell you what you want to know. You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs......
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

zbhjzm




Joined: 18 Dec 2016
Posts: 139

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 24, 2018 10:48    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

Peter Lemkin wrote:
I'm not sure you will get much further without breaking one open and extracting the threads for further testing. As they are not gold, you are not destroying something very precious. As to a new mineral - I highly doubt it. Can't the person who sold them too you tell you where they are from and what other minerals are found in the area around the quartz? I note it seems to have some silver content too. If you can get a piece out, Raman spectrography might tell you what you want to know. You can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs......

The seller got the raw stones from another dealer , she only knows that they are from Brazil...
Though they are not Gold, they are still very rare inclusions in quartz and I am not ready to break one yet. But I already told the seller that if she finds more of those things in the future , just send the raw stones and I'll do the destructive tests on them.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Peter Lemkin




Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 127
Location: Prague

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 24, 2018 11:25    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

I just went through my book 'Inclusions in Quartz' and didn't see anything that looked exactly like what you have. However, you might want to contact the author - Jaroslav Hyrsl.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

zbhjzm




Joined: 18 Dec 2016
Posts: 139

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 24, 2018 22:03    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

Peter Lemkin wrote:
I just went through my book 'Inclusions in Quartz' and didn't see anything that looked exactly like what you have. However, you might want to contact the author - Jaroslav Hyrsl.

Thank you . I searched online but I didn't find Jaroslav Hyrsl's Email address....
And yes,those inclusions look really weird, even the seller never seem anything like them before....



IMG_5493.jpg
 Description:
 Viewed:  863 Time(s)

IMG_5493.jpg



IMG_5521.jpg
 Description:
 Viewed:  864 Time(s)

IMG_5521.jpg



IMG_5555.jpg
 Description:
 Viewed:  862 Time(s)

IMG_5555.jpg



IMG_5562.jpg
 Description:
 Viewed:  864 Time(s)

IMG_5562.jpg



IMG_5565.jpg
 Description:
 Viewed:  863 Time(s)

IMG_5565.jpg


Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Peter Lemkin




Joined: 18 Nov 2016
Posts: 127
Location: Prague

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 24, 2018 23:49    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

Jaroslav is Czech, but only comes here for major European shows and to visit his parents. He lives in Bolivia most of the time. I'm sure some on this site know him and might have his current contact they can send you by PM, I don't have his current contact information but do see him at shows. The other very expensive multi-volume book put out by the GIA on inclusions in gemstones might be something to look at in a good geology library. That is the bible on inclusions in anything. If you have lots of money, you can buy it online from GIA.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

zbhjzm




Joined: 18 Dec 2016
Posts: 139

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 25, 2018 01:42    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

Peter Lemkin wrote:
Jaroslav is Czech, but only comes here for major European shows and to visit his parents. He lives in Bolivia most of the time. I'm sure some on this site know him and might have his current contact they can send you by PM, I don't have his current contact information but do see him at shows. The other very expensive multi-volume book put out by the GIA on inclusions in gemstones might be something to look at in a good geology library. That is the bible on inclusions in anything. If you have lots of money, you can buy it online from GIA.

Thank you .
I wish I can prove that they are some kind of known inclusion in quartz, because then I'll don't need to destroy one.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Duncan Miller




Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 115
Location: Cape Town


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 25, 2018 02:25    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

You don't need to destroy a specimen to get a positive analysis. You have shown photos of fibres exposed on the surface. Many universities a scanning electron microscope with EDS-XRF analysis. It won't damage one of your stones to have it carbon coated (the coating rubs off easily) and for an exposed fibre tip to be analysed in the SEM. This will give you the major element compositions, except for the lightest elements. A gemmologist with a Raman microspectrometer also could determine the composition. If you can't find any suitable facility near you, RRUFF at the University of Arizona can do EDS-XRF and Raman analysis if you sent them a specimen (see 'rruff dot info').
(XRF is X-ray fluorescence which gives you elemental composition; while XRD is X-ray diffraction to determine physical structure, and via that composition for many known minerals.)

_________________
Duncan Miller
Cape Town, South Africa
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

zbhjzm




Joined: 18 Dec 2016
Posts: 139

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Jun 25, 2018 03:42    Post subject: Re: Hairlike Gold inclusions in Quartz??  

Duncan Miller wrote:
You don't need to destroy a specimen to get a positive analysis. You have shown photos of fibres exposed on the surface. Many universities a scanning electron microscope with EDS-XRF analysis. It won't damage one of your stones to have it carbon coated (the coating rubs off easily) and for an exposed fibre tip to be analysed in the SEM. This will give you the major element compositions, except for the lightest elements. A gemmologist with a Raman microspectrometer also could determine the composition. If you can't find any suitable facility near you, RRUFF at the University of Arizona can do EDS-XRF and Raman analysis if you sent them a specimen (see 'rruff dot info').
(XRF is X-ray fluorescence which gives you elemental composition; while XRD is X-ray diffraction to determine physical structure, and via that composition for many known minerals.)

Thank you very much. Actually I've already found a lab where they can do SEM/EDS and Raman analysis, but the SEM/EDS analysis requires the specimen to have a flat surface and Raman spectrography can not analysis pure metal, that is why I chose the handheld XRF analyzer to do the test. Now I guess the inclusions might not be pure metal, maybe Raman spectrography is worth trying.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   
Display posts from previous:   
   Index -> What is it? - Where is it from?   All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 2 of 3
  Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next  

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


All pictures, text, design © Forum FMF 2006-2018


Powered by FMF