We use cookies to show content based on your preferences. If you continue to browse you accept their use and installation. More information. >

FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board
The place to share your mineralogical experiences


Spanish message board






Newest topics and users posts
28 Mar-09:37:50 Re: 2 unknowns co-occurring with caledonite, grand reef mine, az (Cfrench58)
27 Mar-19:47:08 Re: 2 unknowns co-occurring with caledonite, grand reef mine, az (Pete Richards)
27 Mar-16:15:44 Re: 2 unknowns co-occurring with caledonite, grand reef mine, az (Cfrench58)
27 Mar-15:18:59 Re: 2 unknowns co-occurring with caledonite, grand reef mine, az (Alfredo)
27 Mar-14:39:29 2 unknowns co-occurring with caledonite, grand reef mine, az (Cfrench58)
27 Mar-05:21:48 Re: the mim museum in beirut, lebanon (Mim Museum)
27 Mar-05:03:26 Re: trying to find information on rose/pink quartz and tourmaline associations. (Ning)
27 Mar-02:39:50 Re: the mim museum in beirut, lebanon (Tobi)
27 Mar-00:23:28 Re: collection of volkmar stingl (Volkmar Stingl)
26 Mar-00:53:41 Re: collection of volkmar stingl (Volkmar Stingl)
25 Mar-13:32:10 Re: collection of michael shaw (Michael Shaw)
25 Mar-00:25:58 The mizunaka collection - quartz (Am Mizunaka)
23 Mar-13:35:22 Re: collection of firmo espinar (Firmo Espinar)
22 Mar-08:32:28 Re: collection of michael shaw (Michael Shaw)
22 Mar-04:20:41 Re: the mim museum in beirut, lebanon (Mim Museum)
21 Mar-22:49:19 Re: green seam. Looks like it in a state of decay. (Ning)
21 Mar-22:47:40 Re: green seam. Looks like it in a state of decay. (Ning)
21 Mar-22:45:25 Re: green seam. Looks like it in a state of decay. (Ning)
21 Mar-15:34:23 Re: the mizunaka collection - quartz (Am Mizunaka)
21 Mar-14:35:08 Re: jim’s mineral collection (Jim Wilkinson)
21 Mar-14:15:36 The 4th phoenix heritage mineral show (phms) hosted by mineralogical society of arizona (m (Chris Whitney-smith)
21 Mar-04:36:10 Re: the mizunaka collection (Tobi)
21 Mar-04:11:47 Re: jim’s mineral collection (James Catmur)
20 Mar-23:34:15 The mizunaka collection - quartz (Am Mizunaka)
20 Mar-18:13:16 Re: jim’s mineral collection (Jim Wilkinson)

For lists of newest topics and postings click here


RSS RSS

View unanswered posts

Why and how to register

Index Index
 FAQFAQ RegisterRegister  Log inLog in
 {Forgotten your password?}Forgotten your password?  

Like
111802


The time now is Mar 28, 2024 14:03

Search for a textSearch for a text   

A general guide for using the Forum with some rules and tips
The information provided within this Forum about localities is only given to allow reference to them. Any visit to any of the localities requires you to obtain full permission and relevant information prior to your visit. FMF is strictly against any illicit activities related to collecting minerals.
"ite"
  
  Index -> The histories behind mineral specimens
Like
14


View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message

vic rzonca




Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 820
Location: MA


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 07, 2018 13:24    Post subject: "ite"  

As I was working in the wood shop today, and thinking about humboldtine, this question popped into my pea sized brain. Why minerals names end in "ite" so much. I found this: "The suffix "ite" is derived from the Greek word lithos (from its adjectival form -ites), meaning rock or stone. So, minerals named that depends on the earlier part of the name. Olivine would be a mineral that pertains to olive, and so possibly has an olive colour." Found in "English Language & Usage". I'm sure you all knew that.


IMG_5478.jpg
 Mineral: Pumpellyite on Analcime.
 Locality:
O&G Southbury Quarry, Southbury, New Haven County, Connecticut, USA
 Dimensions: 6 cm. pocket
 Description:
 Viewed:  23666 Time(s)

IMG_5478.jpg


Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
3
   

Bob Harman




Joined: 06 Nov 2015
Posts: 765


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 07, 2018 13:39    Post subject: Re: "ite"  

In the US "celestite" is preferred by some while the rest of the mineral world seems to prefer "celestine" as the mineral name....... BOB
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

John S. White
Site Admin



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1295
Location: Stewartstown, Pennsylvania, USA


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 07, 2018 13:54    Post subject: Re: "ite"  

Celestine has been adopted by the international organization that rules on such things. It was selected over celestite because it has been established that celestine has priority, that is, celestine was seen to have been used in the literature before celestite. I would say that celestine is now in wide use in the U.S. but old habits can be hard to change so many collectors and dealers here still use celestite, just as with baryte vs. barite. In this case baryte is now the officially approved form.

Not sure what Vic's point is in that he appears to have answered his own question except that his example "olivine" is an unfortunate one because olivine is no longer a valid mineral species. Try rutile. Many of the better mineral texts provide the reason for the name given to every mineral.

_________________
John S. White
aka Rondinaire
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
4
   

Fiebre Verde




Joined: 11 Sep 2013
Posts: 942
Location: Paris Area


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 07, 2018 13:59    Post subject: Re: "ite"  

Bob Harman wrote:
In the US "celestite" is preferred by some while the rest of the mineral world seems to prefer "celestine" as the mineral name....... BOB

In French, there are 2 words to designate the mineral fluorite: "fluorite" and "fluorine"
Gérard
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

vic rzonca




Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 820
Location: MA


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 07, 2018 14:20    Post subject: Re: "ite"  

"Not sure what Vic's point is in that he appears to have answered his own question except that his example "olivine" is an unfortunate one because olivine is no longer a valid mineral species." JW.

The point was the "pea sized brain", John. My first stop was Google. Kind of stream of consciousness stuff.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

alfredo
Site Admin



Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 979


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 07, 2018 14:55    Post subject: Re: "ite"  

In Vic's defense, let's note that he called olivine a "mineral" (which it certainly is), and did not imply that it was a mineral "species" name.

I blame Joe Mandarino for the pressure felt by many collectors to use only species names on labels, and to view usage of variety/series/group names as somehow inferior. Unnecessarily restrictive, in my view, akin to telling a dog owner that they are not allowed to use "poodle" but must always call their pet a "Canis lupus familiaris".
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
4
   

Tobi
Site Admin



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 4092
Location: Germany


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 08, 2018 02:49    Post subject: Re: "ite"  

alfredo wrote:
Unnecessarily restrictive, in my view, akin to telling a dog owner that they are not allowed to use "poodle" but must always call their pet a "Canis lupus familiaris".
Great, Alfredo, I'm laughing my a** off, you're a great Homo sapiens funnyensis :)))))))))))))

The German language (or better: the German nomenclature for minerals) is also quite inconsistent concerning the suffixes: Most names end on -it (Fluorit, Galenit, Sphalerit, Pyromorphit, Magnetit ...) while there are some on -in like Erythrin, Coelestin, Adamin. Actually they "should" be Erythrit, Coelestit or Adamit - but I guess German language is not really famous for coherent word endings ;-)
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
1
   

lluis




Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 710

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 08, 2018 08:43    Post subject: Re: "ite"  

Hi, Tobi

Not catalan, spanish, italian and the latin languages I know are too strict in ends of words....
Mineralogy (or something related to this) is very, very old.... And old names and new ideas do not need to agree...

In chemistry, trivial names are used.
Acetic acid, Essigsaure, should be called/named ethanoic acid...
I only remember that was said that completely systematic names were used in DDR...
I wish God have blessed them when they should use the systematic name for camphor.... or worse even that for adrenaline....or cortisone... (that I only have found in semi-systematic....)

With best wishes

Lluís
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
1
   

alfredo
Site Admin



Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 979


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 08, 2018 09:12    Post subject: Re: "ite"  

Japanese mineral suffixes are interesting - Most mineral names end in -seki or -ishi, both of which are written 石 in chinese characters, which means "stone". But some mineral groups have more detailed "-seki" suffixes, like -denkiseki 電気石 for the huge group of tourmaline species (which means "electric stone"), or -senseki for amphiboles, -kiseki for pyroxenes, -fusseki for zeolites, and -chohseki for many of the feldspars. Micas however don't use a -seki suffix at all; they all end in "-unmo". And metallic ore minerals end in -koh (like the old german "-kies" suffix).

Although I don't know Chinese, I can say that its mineral suffix structure is similar (Japanese writing, and much of its ancient technical terminology, were afterall derived from chinese).
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
1
   

John S. White
Site Admin



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1295
Location: Stewartstown, Pennsylvania, USA


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 08, 2018 10:10    Post subject: Re: "ite"  

Show off! I am not changing my labels to Japanese. Hope to see you soon in Munich.
_________________
John S. White
aka Rondinaire
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

John Betts




Joined: 07 Jun 2012
Posts: 207
Location: New York City

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 08, 2018 10:15    Post subject: Re: "ite"  

alfredo wrote:
I blame Joe Mandarino for the pressure felt by many collectors to use only species names on labels, and to view usage of variety/series/group names as somehow inferior. Unnecessarily restrictive, in my view, akin to telling a dog owner that they are not allowed to use "poodle" but must always call their pet a "Canis lupus familiaris".


Joe personally told me to relax and freely use the variety/series names. He said it was perfectly acceptable to use obsolete mineral names like biotite, lepidolite, wolframite unless testing established the exact species. You know Joe - he was a very nice guy and did not intend to complicate mineral collecting. He just happened to author/co-author the Glossary...

_________________
John Betts
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

John S. White
Site Admin



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1295
Location: Stewartstown, Pennsylvania, USA


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 08, 2018 10:40    Post subject: Re: "ite"  

I fully agree with Joe’s comment about using obsolete mineral names. They are convenient and everyone knows what they mean.
_________________
John S. White
aka Rondinaire
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Riccardo Modanesi




Joined: 07 Nov 2011
Posts: 618
Location: Milano

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Oct 09, 2018 08:50    Post subject: Re: "ite"  

Hi to everybody!
In Italian we use the suffix "ite" for any kind of mineral, but for celestine (which we call "celestina") or celsian ("celsiana") etc. Acetic acid = acido acetico! And often we transform the letter-group "ph-" in the simple "f". For example, phosphosiderite (English) = fosfosiderite (Italian); phlogopite (English) = flogopite (Italian).
Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.

_________________
Hi! I'm a collector of minerals since 1973 and a gemmologist. On Summer I always visit mines and quarries all over Europe looking for minerals! Ok, there is time to tell you much much more! Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   
Display posts from previous:   
   Index -> The histories behind mineral specimens   All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1
    

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


All pictures, text, design © Forum FMF 2006-2024


Powered by FMF