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Fossil Leaf ?
  
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NewGreenHelp




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PostPosted: May 07, 2019 17:02    Post subject: Fossil Leaf ?  

This was among some leaves. Looked out of place. Looks to be a fossilized leaf? It feels like a rock. Wonder how it was formed?


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Bob Harman




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PostPosted: May 07, 2019 17:23    Post subject: Re: Fossil Leaf ?  

At first glance, from your photos, the example looks like a fossil leaf. But don't be too sure!

It is easy and rather regularly done to fake these things. Just lightly press a modern day leaf into hardening clay (or similar substance) and then gently remove the leaf, letting the clay harden. Then make the impression and matrix look old. Walah!, you have a faked fossil leaf!

So as this is not a fossil forum, I suggest taking your example to have it examined in person. Is the matrix genuine and natural and is the leaf a known fossilized species or could it be a current modern day species. Important questions to be answered before making the final judgement. BOB
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NewGreenHelp




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PostPosted: May 07, 2019 17:28    Post subject: Re: Fossil Leaf ?  

I'm sorry regarding posting the fossil. Should have known. It IS a mineral forum.
Found this outside my house along my walkway which is in the middle of nowhere but Thanks for your tips! I appreciate it.
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NewGreenHelp




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PostPosted: May 07, 2019 17:29    Post subject: Re: Fossil Leaf ?  

Theres quite a bit of natural clay here...?
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SteveB




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PostPosted: May 07, 2019 20:17    Post subject: Re: Fossil Leaf ?  

NewGreenHelp wrote:
I'm sorry regarding posting the fossil. Should have known. It IS a mineral forum.

Correct, Also as with all forums it has clearly posted posting rules and guidelines which state that Fossils are NOT part of the scope here. Dont bother arguing.

Yes this is a man made fake fossil, you have your answer.
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alfredo
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PostPosted: May 07, 2019 20:35    Post subject: Re: Fossil Leaf ?  

I disagree that this is a "man-made fake". If I were trying to make a fake fossil leaf, I'd make one much more intact and beautiful than this! Who on earth would try to manufacture such an incomplete fake "fossil"?
But I've seen such things form naturally by two different methods: one where leaves have been calcified in Ca-rich spring water, and the other where they've been limonitized by iron-rich spring waters. In both cases the process appears to have happened in just a very few years, and my fossil collecting friends tell me the cut-off date for considering remains to be "fossilized" is arbitrarily considered to be 10,000 years, so such objects as this aren't "fossils" even if formed naturally. But they ARE mineral specimens - calcite, aragonite, or limonite pseudomorph after leaf, because unlike fossils there is no cut-off date for defining a "mineral"! So y'all are giving NewGreenHelp a hard time erroneously ;))
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NewGreenHelp




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PostPosted: May 07, 2019 21:07    Post subject: Re: Fossil Leaf ?  

Thank you Alfredo!!! Very interesting! Plus it makes sense now! Thanks for explaining!
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SteveB




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PostPosted: May 07, 2019 21:15    Post subject: Re: Fossil Leaf ?  

Yes fossils can occur naturally in a short period of time rather than millions of years. Likewise there is a market for fakes out there and its common practice in collectibles circles like stamps, coins, artworks etc to NOT disclose precisely the aspects that give the fakers points to improve on. I see several signs in this photo that scream fake to me. Your experience and opinion made differ but regardless we are off topic on a topic that should never have been posted to begin with.
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Bob Harman




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PostPosted: May 07, 2019 22:14    Post subject: Re: Fossil Leaf ?  

Recognizing that this is not a fossil forum, anytime you can make a couple of bucks off the novice or unsuspecting, something is worth faking. Fossil fakes and various types of alterations from $20 to $20K abound. I am sure ALFREDO has seen the many obvious and contrived Moroccan trilobite fossil fakes and alterations at Tucson and the other big shows. Why not fake inexpensive leaf fossils if they are easy to make and sell? Rather naive to think all these are real, just because they may not be expensive.

The posted example may indeed be real, as I originally said, but needs in person examination.

Translating all this discussion to minerals, it is also naive to think that all very small examples of ultrarare mineral specimens with assays accompanying the examples are genuine. At several shows, I have seen a number of for sale examples where the assay paper work was done 10 - 20 years ago and some other rare mineral examples with no accompanying before and after photos of the specific specimen being assayed and then sold.

I'll bet that a critical review of these type tiny rare mineral assayed specimens shows some significant % of those sold are not what they are suppose to be. BOB
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Jordi Fabre
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PostPosted: May 08, 2019 03:37    Post subject: Re: Fossil Leaf ?  

Sorry to close this interesting thread, but as warned on the rules of this Forum:

Due to our experience regarding questions about "meteorites" and fossils this Forum, which is NOT a meteorite or a fossils Forum, always choses to answer these questions by simply closing the thread where the question was published, so as to avoid unnecessary controversies. Alternatively we suggest for the "meteorites" you visit this other forum Space Rock Club where these types of questions are answered.


this is not a fossils Forum and if we allow continue discusions about fossils we will be flooded with multiple requests related with fosils that in fact are not our speciality.

Thanks for the understanding

Jordi
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