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A general guide for using the Forum with some rules and tips
May I get a read
  
  Index -> What is it? - Where is it from?
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jim hill




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PostPosted: Sep 12, 2019 15:38    Post subject: May I get a read  

I found the following in Bessemer, Pa. If better pics are needed please ask. The first set . specific gravity comes out 3.6, 3.7. Hardness is above 8. I started cutting/working 2 stones. I have nothing that will polish them.


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Matt_Zukowski
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PostPosted: Sep 12, 2019 16:11    Post subject: Re: may i get a read  

The last picture seems to show conchoidal fracture, indicating that it probably glass. The rocks also look water or wind worn, which would suggest that perhaps your hardness measurements are off.
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jim hill




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PostPosted: Sep 12, 2019 16:20    Post subject: Re: may i get a read  

Matt_Zukowski wrote:
The last picture seems to show conchoidal fracture, indicating that it probably glass. The rocks also look water or wind worn, which would suggest that perhaps your hardness measurements are off.
. lets try again. fact are true
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Joseph DOliveira




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PostPosted: Sep 12, 2019 19:22    Post subject: Re: may i get a read  

How about quartz, especially with the conchoidal fracture, and pretty close to your 8 hardness.
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jim hill




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PostPosted: Sep 13, 2019 09:34    Post subject: Re: may i get a read  

Joseph DOliveira wrote:
How about quartz, especially with the conchoidal fracture, and pretty close to your 8 hardness.



considered , but with a specific gravity at 3.6 , 3.7 . is not likely . my other quartz will not scratch it.
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Rich Loose




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PostPosted: Sep 13, 2019 11:03    Post subject: Re: May I get a read  

Hello-

You could break up one of the pieces and look at the fragments immersed in refractive index oil until you find a match. You need a microscope to do it. And a book of refractive values for minerals. A nearby University that teaches mineralogy might have what you need. It is an old technique so they more likely have much more modern equipment like xray fluorescence or many other techniques....but pretty expensive.

I think the only super hard suspects left would most likely be diamond or corundum (white sapphire) . Not too likely at the local you noted.

Rich Loose
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Pete Richards
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PostPosted: Sep 13, 2019 11:59    Post subject: Re: May I get a read  

I looked up a table of minerals by specific gravity, and downloaded the data including color, hardness and luster. There were 273 minerals with s.g. between 3.5 and 3.8. Of these, 34 were listed as colorless. Of these only four had hardnesses greater than 7, that of quartz. These are diamond, topaz, spinel, and magnesiotaffetite.

Corundum did not make the list because it was not listed as colorless, and it generally is not, as found in nature.

Diamond and topaz have perfect cleavages, which would show up if you sacrificed one of the pieces and hit it with a hammer. Spinel is rarely colorless, though it was listed that way, and magnesiotaffetite is exceedingly rare.

The probability of finding a handful of any of these as natural minerals in Bessimer, PA is remote at best.

At this point, you would need to submit something for testing at a highly qualified gem lab or mineralogy department.

I can't help commenting on your statement that "fact[s] are true". This amounts to a tautology. But it does not follow that your data are facts. The fact is that you measured and computed a s.g. of 3.6-3.7. It may also be a fact that the s.g. of what you measured is really between 3.6 and 3.7, or it may not. But your observation only approaches fact when it has been independently verified at least once. Science is littered, unfortunately, with "facts" that turn out not to be true. And for that reason, many view the term "fact" as suspect within science, and prefer to remain healthily skeptical that the "truth" may change with more observations and insights. Skepticism is particularly warranted when the stated "facts" don't add up to a probable conclusion, as is the case here.

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jim hill




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PostPosted: Sep 29, 2019 13:55    Post subject: Re: May I get a read  

Pete Richards wrote:
I looked up a table of minerals by specific gravity, and downloaded the data including color, hardness and luster. There were 273 minerals with s.g. between 3.5 and 3.8. Of these, 34 were listed as colorless. Of these only four had hardnesses greater than 7, that of quartz. These are diamond, topaz, spinel, and magnesiotaffetite.

Corundum did not make the list because it was not listed as colorless, and it generally is not, as found in nature.

Diamond and topaz have perfect cleavages, which would show up if you sacrificed one of the pieces and hit it with a hammer. Spinel is rarely colorless, though it was listed that way, and magnesiotaffetite is exceedingly rare.

The probability of finding a handful of any of these as natural minerals in Bessimer, PA is remote at best.

At this point, you would need to submit something for testing at a highly qualified gem lab or mineralogy department.

I can't help commenting on your statement that "fact[s] are true". This amounts to a tautology. But it does not follow that your data are facts. The fact is that you measured and computed a s.g. of 3.6-3.7. It may also be a fact that the s.g. of what you measured is really between 3.6 and 3.7, or it may not. But your observation only approaches fact when it has been independently verified at least once. Science is littered, unfortunately, with "facts" that turn out not to be true. And for that reason, many view the term "fact" as suspect within science, and prefer to remain healthily skeptical that the "truth" may change with more observations and insights. Skepticism is particularly warranted when the stated "facts" don't add up to a probable conclusion, as is the case here.



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jim hill




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PostPosted: Sep 29, 2019 14:28    Post subject: Re: May I get a read  

Pete Richards wrote:
I looked up a table of minerals by specific gravity, and downloaded the data including color, hardness and luster. There were 273 minerals with s.g. between 3.5 and 3.8. Of these, 34 were listed as colorless. Of these only four had hardnesses greater than 7, that of quartz. These are diamond, topaz, spinel, and magnesiotaffetite.

Corundum did not make the list because it was not listed as colorless, and it generally is not, as found in nature.

Diamond and topaz have perfect cleavages, which would show up if you sacrificed one of the pieces and hit it with a hammer. Spinel is rarely colorless, though it was listed that way, and magnesiotaffetite is exceedingly rare.

The probability of finding a handful of any of these as natural minerals in Bessimer, PA is remote at best..
At this point, you would need to submit something for testing at a highlyqualified gem lab or mineralogy department.

I can't help commenting on your statement that "fact[s] are true". This amounts to a tautology. But it does not follow that your data are facts. The fact is that you measured and computed a s.g. of 3.6-3.7. It may also be a fact that the s.g. of what you measured is really between 3.6 and 3.7, or it may not. But your observation only approaches fact when it has been independently verified at least once. Science is littered, unfortunately, with "facts" that turn out not to be true. And for that reason, many view the term "fact" as suspect within science, and prefer to remain healthily skeptical that the "truth" may change with more observations and insights. Skepticism is particularly warranted when the stated "facts" don't add up to a probable conclusion, as is the case here.



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these may add some helpful insight.
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Bob Harman




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PostPosted: Sep 29, 2019 14:39    Post subject: Re: May I get a read  

Your first group of photos, of the clear pieces, almost certainly are of old pieces of glass that have been laying around for years, now getting water tumbled rounded edges and frosted surfaces. Clear quartz fragments, while possible, seem unlikely to me.
I do not see those fragments, if found in the Bessemer Pennsylvania area, being anything else.

I am not sure what to make of your last 2 pix. A collection?? Research pieces?? What??

BOB
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jim hill




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PostPosted: Sep 29, 2019 19:38    Post subject: Re: May I get a read  

Pete Richards wrote:
I looked up a table of minerals by specific gravity, and downloaded the data including color, hardness and luster. There were 273 minerals with s.g. between 3.5 and 3.8. Of these, 34 were listed as colorless. Of these only four had hardnesses greater than 7, that of quartz. These are diamond, topaz, spinel, and magnesiotaffetite.

Corundum did not make the list because it was not listed as colorless, and it generally is not, as found in nature.

Diamond and topaz have perfect cleavages, which would show up if you sacrificed one of the pieces and hit it with a hammer. Spinel is rarely colorless, though it was listed that way, and magnesiotaffetite is exceedingly rare.

The probability of finding a handful of any of these as natural minerals in Bessimer, PA is remote at best.

At this point, you would need to submit something for testing at a highly qualified gem lab or mineralogy department.

I can't help commenting on your statement that "fact[s] are true". This amounts to a tautology. But it does not follow that your data are facts. The fact is that you measured and computed a s.g. of 3.6-3.7. It may also be a fact that the s.g. of what you measured is really between 3.6 and 3.7, or it may not. But your observation only approaches fact when it has been independently verified at least once. Science is littered, unfortunately, with "facts" that turn out not to be true. And for that reason, many view the term "fact" as suspect within science, and prefer to remain healthily skeptical that the "truth" may change with more observations and insights. Skepticism is particularly warranted when the stated "facts" don't add up to a probable conclusion, as is the case here.



Thank you. . would you be willing to travel to bessemer . i am willing to compensate you for your time and expertise.. my collection is quite impressive. and i am unable to find a individual in my area that has the knowledge that the members of this sight possess .



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