FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[dallaswilks]

Is Mineral Collecting becoming too Superficial or has it always been so.

In this discussion I would like to exclude field collecting, scientific collecting and teaching.

Unlike many other hobbies that require considerable input (talent, physical and intellectual) on the part of the hobbyist, mineral collecting seems to be a hobby that is largely based on how much one can spend. This fact became very clear if one maintains an open-mind about the main thrust of Tucson 2020 – World Class Minerals. I think it would be ridiculous to argue that the World Class minerals shown in the competition display cases were obtained for less than $500. Many were clearly in the $1000 - $5000 price range and some exceeded $10,000 in price. I know this for a fact from private communications I have had with some high-end dealers.

I am not criticizing people for having access to money, for to do so would mean I am criticizing myself too. I am asking the simple question, how much real talent does it take to be a world-class mineral collector in the 21st century?

The facts are obvious that the vast majority of World Class Collectors did not;

Locate the mineral deposit
Sink the shaft to intersect the mineral deposit
Extract the mineral specimen from the deposit
Prepare and trim the extracted specimen
Make the stand on which the mineral was displayed
Etc., etc., etc.,

I know this for a fact! I also know that some World Class Mineral collectors pay ‘people’ to advise them on the best specimens to buy – and I am not talking about investment specimens.

So, what is modern mineral collecting all about?

[Gail]

I find this a bit silly. The word “collecting” means something different to everyone. Who are we to debate someone’s collecting style? I’m just happy so many people do collect. In fact, I’m jubilant.

[Bob Harman]

Before I give my opinions, I will say that this thread, by a new forum member, smacks of being just like several recently locked threads. I would not at all be surprised to find that this and the previous poster are one and the same.......

Mineral collecting, like other collecting hobbies, is composed of many types of collectors.
Some have deep financial pockets, while others do not.
Some are geologists/mineralogists while other collectors have no background or special interests in geology.
Some collectors like large showy display specimens while other collectors want only small perfect or very rare mineral specimens.
Some collectors collect worldwide minerals while other collectors specialize in their collections.
Some collectors field collect and have had some luck at it, while other collectors are content to purchase their specimens. It goes on and on........

Mineral collecting is made up of lots of different kinds of collectors. There is no "right or wrong" kind of collector or their collections. They all are just interested in differing aspects of mineral collecting.

Having said all of this, mineral collecting is, in my opinion, changing. All collector hobbies go thru times of change. Today there are more affluent non-geologist collectors more interested in larger aesthetic (and pricey) specimens. While there always will be geologist/mineralogist collectors that might rather have small rare minerals or minerals with specific geologic histories, their numbers, in fact, do seem to be declining.

My opinion. BOB

[Peter Lemkin]

Some years ago at the main Tuscon Show I was looking at a display case that had just won an award. Its proud owner was standing nearby and asked me what I thought of his case. It was full of very colorful, very nearly perfect, very expensive, and very large XX for the respective species. I said, in truth, it was a very nice collection of minerals. I then asked him how long it took him to collect such spectacular specimens. Without hesitation he told me he had become interested in minerals only a year ago and half a year ago had begun actively buying the minerals assembled within the case. He was in his 50's and obviously had deep pockets. I know such stories are 'music' to the ears of high-end sellers; but to me it is 'the problem' [or a large part of it] for the rapid increase in prices overall and the decline of collectors like myself. In my collection are self-collected and purchased/traded. A few are very top notch, but most are likely to be graded as mid-level for the species. I have special locations and minerals I like to collect, and I'm very interested in oddities of the mineral world - or specimens that show me something in the macro sense of the micro reality of mineralogy/crystallography and the molecular world.
I didn't ask this person with the case assembled in six months [with an 'advisor' he mentioned] what he knew or cared about geology, mineralogy, crystallography, etc....but I think those were abstract fields of which he had real actual interest. He knew, as most do, what looks good and what looks flashy and expensive. Yes, we all collect for different reasons and with different budgets, but I for one miss the 'old days' [I'm 69+] when more at shows also self-collected [or had], and knew and cared about geology, mineralogy, crystallography, petrology and such...and prices were more reasonable when adjusted for current income and inflation.

[basti]

I'm mostly a field collector and actually a used-to-be-pro mineralogist, I still cooperate on research. About 50-60 % of my catalogued collection is self collected, of course the vast majority of "stockpile" is self collected too - that's a couple of thousand pieces.

I basically dump many low-grade pieces to kids or university educational programs for kids etc. Some mid- to top-grade specimens - especially oversize or systematic fetish - go to museums. For free of course.

I keep mostly pegmatites and Alpine minerals, though I have a decent selection of other minerals too. In total I would say about 1000 pieces in my main collection - catalogued or "should be catalogued". These are mostly mid-quality (as Peter Lemkin said), only a few are real "premium" specimens.

It is true, that "collectors" with deep pockets can build an "award-winning" collection in just a few months. But try to build such collection with self-collected material... we can complain about that, but that's how it works now.

It is true that such people drive the mineral prices up. But I'm happy about that! Because it means my collection value is also growing pretty quickly. And these people dump money into specimen mining = more cheap mid-range specimens available.

[Roger Warin]

I think a collection of minerals is the ship's log book that has carried us for a lifetime.
No matter how good the specimens are, if they carry souvenirs.
Of course, if the hobby opens the door to reflection on the origin of minerals, on the origin of matter, we can then let our spirit gravitate in the world of stars ...
It’s a beautiful hobby.

[rernst]

The original question was "how much talent does it take to build a world class collection"

For disclosure sake let me say I'm a collector of modest means and not nearly as knowledgeable as many of those I see posting here.
In my opinion the question is too broad to produce truly meaningful information. With enough money one can purchase a "world class" collection without any "talent"' at all. But it misses the spirit and point of collecting, which is to build knowledge and or aesthetic pleasure. A collection becomes a form of personal expression. If you simply buy a world class collection without personal knowledge or appreciation then I don't believe you are a collector. You are simply someone who bought a collection. I collect within my means and opportunities and it has given me satisfaction and enjoyment.
The premise that collections are personal expressions and their meaning specific to that expression is the fact that when the owner passes away it is almost always disseminated and broken up. So no, collecting has not become superficial. Lack of appreciation is.

[Peter Lemkin]

[Peter Megaw]

Whatever our different motivations and approaches (and resources) may be, mineral collecting unites us. Questions/threads like this...with inherent implications that there is only one way to do it right (your way)...divide us. Don't we live with enough of that already?

The next time the urge strikes to go down this path, please take two wulfenites and sleep on it.

[Gail]

Amen, my friend.

[Bob Harman]

I would be for locking this thread as it is, as Gail and Peter noted, becoming divisive. BOB

[Don Lum]

From what I understand from sources I consider reliable, there are collectors with magnificent specimens that never see the light of day. These collections would likely win every time they entered a mineral competition. As David Wilber told me more than once in person, "I appreciate all minerals whether I own them or not." And then he would say again "I APPRECIATE ALL MINERALS WHETHER I OWN THEM OR NOT."

From Disiderata: If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

[Jesse Fisher]

There are as many ways to approach mineral collecting as there are people to do it. Some people are attracted by the scientific aspect of it, others by the history of science and collecting, others by the attraction of pretty colorful objects. There is no right or wrong, and no approach is necessarily more superficial than another. It all depends on just how much time and effort an individual is wiling to spend on the pursuit of their interest. I've been collecting minerals for about 40 years and the only change I've seen is the amount of money coming into the hobby. But then, most things cost a lot more than they did 40 years ago. I think that the unifying theme is that we all like these things, regardless of our underlying motivation. Saying that some reasons are more superficial than others does a disservice to everyone.

[Joseph DOliveira]

I guess I'll wade into the discussion as I sit here in Tucson hoping they will not shut the US/Canada border before I return home at the end of the month.

For many of us the hobby started at a young age where we collected locally sourced interesting rocks and developed an interest in the mineral hobby from both a scientific and aesthetic perspective. As our interest developed, it became quite apparent that the local supply of minerals was insufficient enough to diversify the collection, so trading and purchasing of specimens became a necessity.

The advancements on global travel and communications have had a very positive impact on the hobby, from the miners to the dealers to collectors. The miners in foreign countries benefit financially, which generally results in a higher standard of living, regardless of what price is paid for a particularly specimen. The dealer benefits financially as he absorbs the risk of purchasing, marketing and eventually selling the specimens. Finally, the collector benefits by both of these transactions as he is able to source a suitable addition to his collection within his budget.

For the most part, our collections have been assembled by collecting, trading and purchasing specimens, with purchased specimens making up the bulk of our aesthetic specimens. Each collection regardless of the method or cost of assembly, is a reflection of the collectors personal choices and therefore gives you an insight to their personality. Whether it took months or years to assemble is inconsequential, as that is their personal choice.

The FMF forum gives every collector, whether world class or novice, the opportunity to share their collection via the collectors pages. When you scroll through the individual collections, you see a diversity in quality and value. I have yet to see anyone derided over the fact that someone's post is not world class or not worthy of those who participate in the forum. In answer to the question "is mineral collecting becoming too superficial", look no farther than this forum for your answer.

[Peter Lemkin]

[Matt_Zukowski]

I believe that this issue has been discussed enough and has strayed into politics so i am going to lock this thread. If anyone has a problem with me locking this thread, please send me a PM.