FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

tgleckler · Joined: 05 Feb 2019 Posts: 9 Location: Arizona

I’ve been working with Peter on investigating this material. One additional data point that was not in Peter’s description was that while air abrading some of the matrix away on one of the pieces, I found two thin layers of either copper or cuprite ps copper. I was busy trimming at the time, so I didn’t save them for analysis, but it does look a copper source is in close proximity.

pub1tzu · Joined: 06 May 2009 Posts: 18 Location: Sebastopol, CA

I want to be sure to follow along on this discussion.
Peter, somebody said that you said it is not copper...do you have anymore insight into that?
I don't really wanna be saying somebody said, you said, however, I also don't feel like publicly "calling somebody out"
Thanks

Daniel Peters · Joined: 20 Aug 2018 Posts: 7 Location: Texas

Has anyone tried rubbing the surface of the hemimorphite crystals with a q-tip soaked in 70% or 90% isopropyl alcohol?

Curious if any blue residue rubbed off on the head of the q-tip.

monicaiRocks · Joined: 23 Jun 2016 Posts: 12 Location: Dallas

There’s a thread on this in Young Mineral Collectors and various collectors have soaked in acetone, isopropyl, and vinegar to see if any color came off and they said no issues. No first hand experience... only sharing what had been posted there!

pub1tzu · Joined: 06 May 2009 Posts: 18 Location: Sebastopol, CA

I keep asking and wondering, where's the not still physically young and not yet officially old mineral collector's group...I kid...it is a bit of agism...kinda reminiscent of Logan's Run...old timer's probably remember that one.

Jean Sendero

This fantastic new find is still delivering uncertainties when it comes to "is it real" or "is it fake"?

I received this week, the specimen shown below of the blue hemimorphite associated with with calcite rhombohedra.

I cannot think or imagine how one can fake the blue color of the hemimorphite without impacting the calcite? How to artificially add this color to the hemimorphite without impacting the calcite? The calcite, as you can see on the photo, is late and growing though or over the hemimorphite.

The late calcite overgrowing the hemimorphite and the various videos of in-situ material are pretty telling evidences that, in my opinion, these are not fake but the real stuff.

This said, I remain open minded and I would surely want to hear from those advocating that these are fake. What are the arguments other than the color being out of this world, almost unreal?

Cheers

Kevin Schofield · Joined: 05 Jan 2018 Posts: 169 Location: Beacon NY

FMI have been conducting lab tests, and will make an announcement on the results this coming Monday.

...keep an eye on their website and Instagram.

Peter Megaw

THE BLUE HEMIMORPHITES ARE FAKES! (AT LEAST SOME ARE)
Although we do not understand how the chemicals were introduced to give such a selective coating, there appears to be no question that most…if not all…of the blue hemimorphites were faked by somehow saturating pockets in place in the mine with Pthalocyanine Blue. This explains the description of the best color as “Windex Blue”…Windex is blue because it’s colored with the same stuff.
Pthalocyanine Blue has NO natural analog, but does contain copper. It is insoluble in water and acetone and is known for being remarkable colorfast. These features explain why the analyses and standard tests performed to determine if it was a blue secondary mineral failed to reveal the fakery.

lluis · Joined: 17 Nov 2006 Posts: 719

Dear Mr.Megaw, List

Many thanks for info!

But then, I have even more questions....
If color is done with copper pthalocyanine, then, why is it that ONLY the hemimorphite turns blue?
Also, pthalocyanine is a pigment, that is not soluble in water,... so to be used as a dye, it should be "glued" over the piece... Easy to do with by example with an acrylic resin (or any other....)
But those, use to be soluble in acetone, or, at least, swallow with acetone...
And the Sa Duchesa Mine ones, as far as I know are genuine...

Maybe I am wrong in all, but could anyone explain to me what is wrong?

With best wishes

Lluís