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Canon SLR with stacking
  
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James Catmur
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PostPosted: Nov 27, 2021 13:35    Post subject: Canon SLR with stacking  

Has anyone tried the Canon DSLR bodies that have built-in focus stacking? Sounds like a cool idea, but they are not cheap!
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Fiebre Verde




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PostPosted: Nov 27, 2021 13:58    Post subject: Re: Cannon SLR with stacking  

James Catmur wrote:
Has anyone tried the Cannon DSLR bodies that have built-in focus stacking? Sounds like a cool idea, but they are not cheap!

Didn't know that Canon had a model with built-in focus stacking. Which model is that?
Gérard
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PostPosted: Nov 27, 2021 23:30    Post subject: Re: Cannon SLR with stacking  

If you put into a search engine something like 'digital camera with focus stacking' there are several [more than 20] different makers and cameras in a wide price and quality range - often in reviews comparing them. I'd be more interested in how in-camera vs. in computer stacking compare in quality. It is surely easier in-camera, if it works well. Perhaps the answer is to use both? Sadly, Nikon is not listed yet - as my equipment is all Nikon.
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Fiebre Verde




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PostPosted: Nov 28, 2021 00:05    Post subject: Re: Cannon SLR with stacking  

Peter Lemkin wrote:
If you put into a search engine something like 'digital camera with focus stacking' there are several [more than 20] different makers and cameras in a wide price and quality range - often in reviews comparing them. I'd be more interested in how in-camera vs. in computer stacking compare in quality. It is surely easier in-camera, if it works well. Perhaps the answer is to use both? Sadly, Nikon is not listed yet - as my equipment is all Nikon.

Peter,
I heard Nikon Z6 II had built-in focus stacking.
Gérard
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am mizunaka




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PostPosted: Nov 28, 2021 03:32    Post subject: Re: Cannon SLR with stacking  

Fiebre Verde wrote:
Peter Lemkin wrote:
If you put into a seach engine something like 'digital camera with focus stacking' there are several [more than 20] different makers and cameras in a wide price and quality range - often in reviews comparing them. I'd be more interested in how in-camera vs. in computer stacking compare in quality. It is surely easier in-camera, if it works well. Perhaps the answer is to use both? Sadly, Nikon i s not listed yet - as my equiptment is all Nikon.

Peter,
I heard Nikon Z6 II had built-in focus stacking.
Gérard


The original Nikon Z6 and Z7 have a stacking feature as well.
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PostPosted: Nov 28, 2021 05:42    Post subject: Re: Cannon SLR with stacking  

The Canon RP is rated to do in camera focus stacking
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PostPosted: Nov 28, 2021 06:36    Post subject: Re: Cannon SLR with stacking  

I read "Some Canon cameras such as the Canon EOS R5, Canon EOS R6, Canon EOS RP and Canon EOS 90D feature built-in automatic focus bracketing, to make capturing your focus stacking images even easier"

Reviews seem good

Fiebre Verde wrote:
James Catmur wrote:
Has anyone tried the Canon DSLR bodies that have built-in focus stacking? Sounds like a cool idea, but they are not cheap!

Didn't know that Canon had a model with built-in focus stacking. Which model is that?
Gérard
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James Catmur
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PostPosted: Nov 29, 2021 07:51    Post subject: Re: Cannon SLR with stacking  

Comment from Steve B:

SteveB wrote:

No experience with the FS cameras but do some closer research before buying. Is it just a feature you’d like to have or something you’d buy the camera specifically for? For landscape or macro shots? The FS shots I’ve taken have been made using software, a process of having a camera on tripod and slow careful manual focusing and remote to trigger the shutter to avoid shake. Microscope shots are easy with the focus wheel and the scope moves up/down a rail. The software does a great job of analysing image sharpness at each pixel to determine what’s in focus to keep/stack in the final image. Cameras use difference sharpness algorithms to determine focus for their autofocus systems. I’ve never heard of firmware updates changing the method used by the camera. Seems to me in camera you are limited to what they’ve implemented whereas computer software could offer you various methods of stacking as algorithms are developed and improved. I’ve been happy with my shots but you can get a soft focus effect mixed with the full depth focus as parts of each ishot are in crisp focus while the rest of bokeh blur and it all gets stacked. To get everything in focus you should tripod mount and shoot using a remote at f/8 or above, that gives you a large range of optically in focus photons being captured. However only the highest quality lenses are ever sharp corner to corner.

Looking at some comparison articles some of these cameras only use focus bracketing. That is they take the separate photos that you need to stack with software yourself still. Also the autofocusing controls in lenses have changed over the years so some lenses won’t be conpatible with cameras having the focus stacking feature.So carefully check the manufacturer’s website they should have a list of known compatible/incompatbile lenses with anything not listed being maybes.

I’d love to see a results comparison between in camera and software but I’d bet software focus stacking gives a better result than in camera. Just like HDR and panoramas, I have tested myself and software is far better. In camera can be good and its certainly more convenient, but when you know what to look for you can spot the artifacts with in camera results. The better software gives you lots of manual control allowing you far better results. In camera seems to be aimed at quick and easy for the social media types where accuracy and quality dont matter.

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PostPosted: Nov 29, 2021 07:56    Post subject: Re: Cannon SLR with stacking  

Steve, my understanding is that the camera automatically take multiple shots and then you post-process them with software to stack them. It seems that you tell it how many shots to take and the step between shots. Then (with it on a tripod) it takes that many shots for you.

I am interested to hear if it works too.

SteveB wrote:

No experience with the FS cameras but do some closer research before buying. Is it just a feature you’d like to have or something you’d buy the camera specifically for? For landscape or macro shots? The FS shots I’ve taken have been made using software, a process of having a camera on tripod and slow careful manual focusing and remote to trigger the shutter to avoid shake. Microscope shots are easy with the focus wheel and the scope moves up/down a rail. The software does a great job of analysing image sharpness at each pixel to determine what’s in focus to keep/stack in the final image. Cameras use difference sharpness algorithms to determine focus for their autofocus systems. I’ve never heard of firmware updates changing the method used by the camera. Seems to me in camera you are limited to what they’ve implemented whereas computer software could offer you various methods of stacking as algorithms are developed and improved. I’ve been happy with my shots but you can get a soft focus effect mixed with the full depth focus as parts of each ishot are in crisp focus while the rest of bokeh blur and it all gets stacked. To get everything in focus you should tripod mount and shoot using a remote at f/8 or above, that gives you a large range of optically in focus photons being captured. However only the highest quality lenses are ever sharp corner to corner.

Looking at some comparison articles some of these cameras only use focus bracketing. That is they take the separate photos that you need to stack with software yourself still. Also the autofocusing controls in lenses have changed over the years so some lenses won’t be conpatible with cameras having the focus stacking feature.So carefully check the manufacturer’s website they should have a list of known compatible/incompatbile lenses with anything not listed being maybes.

I’d love to see a results comparison between in camera and software but I’d bet software focus stacking gives a better result than in camera. Just like HDR and panoramas, I have tested myself and software is far better. In camera can be good and its certainly more convenient, but when you know what to look for you can spot the artifacts with in camera results. The better software gives you lots of manual control allowing you far better results. In camera seems to be aimed at quick and easy for the social media types where accuracy and quality dont matter.

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PostPosted: Nov 29, 2021 07:59    Post subject: Re: Cannon SLR with stacking  

This article explains how it works.

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Canon-Cameras/Canon-Focus-Bracketing.aspx

So it only makes sense, as Steve says. if you already own a suitable lens.

Who wants to try it on mineral specimens (not trains and watches)?

James
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PostPosted: Nov 29, 2021 09:34    Post subject: Re: Cannon SLR with stacking  

Actually, I have been doing so for some time already. Not with a Canon, but using a Lumix G9. The pictures can be stacked either internally, by the camera, or externally using third-party software.

I usually follow the second route. Shoot the different frames in RAW, process them in Silkypix, build the stack in Helicon Focus and finish the picture in Affinity Photo.

This function has been available for several years in some Lumix (Panasonic) and Olympus cameras. As far as I know, stacking can be performed by using the Pro line of Olympus lenses but is available in all of the Lumix lenses.



Adamita 1 UD6.3 Affinity (B,R8,S4) FOV3.05.jpg
 Mineral: Adamite
 Locality:
Kamaritza Mines, Lavrion Mining District, Attikí (Attica) Prefecture, Greece
 Dimensions: FOV 3.05 mm
 Description:
 Viewed:  1273 Time(s)

Adamita 1 UD6.3 Affinity (B,R8,S4) FOV3.05.jpg


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PostPosted: Dec 05, 2021 13:37    Post subject: Re: Cannon SLR with stacking  

Two years ago I saw a demonstration of in camera focus stacking at the Rochester Mineral Symposium.

I bought the reasonable camera Olympus TG-4 and am pleased with the results.

I plan to use the camera for a paper I am preparing.
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PostPosted: Dec 06, 2021 09:42    Post subject: Re: Canon SLR with stacking  

I saw the same demonstration and got my TG-4 and am equally satisfied. But I doubt it meets the expectations of some of our more skilled and discriminating photographers.

Hey everybody, keep sending the photos. They are greatly appreciated.
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PostPosted: Dec 06, 2021 13:14    Post subject: Re: Canon SLR with stacking  

As I already use a Canon body and have lots of Canon lenses I am tempted by the idea of their body and stacking. But I would be looking at US$lots for the new body. Let me check my lenses against their list

Bob Morgan wrote:
I saw the same demonstration and got my TG-4 and am equally satisfied. But I doubt it meets the expectations of some of our more skilled and discriminating photographers.

Hey everybody, keep sending the photos. They are greatly appreciated.
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PostPosted: Dec 08, 2021 23:08    Post subject: Re: Canon SLR with stacking  

I've used it using my Canon RP and Helicon focus for stacking - it works fine.

Lenses tried are RF 24-70, RF 100mm (Excellent!) and EF lens with the converter

I can highly recommend the RP + RF 100mm for macro mineral photography but do prefer using Helicon remote for creating the stack - more flexibility.

(Example of result attached by FMF)



Example.jpg
 Mineral: Rhodochrosite, Malachite after Cuprite
 Locality:
Wolf Mine, Herdorf, Siegerland, Rhineland-Palatinate/Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany
 Description:
Cropped from stacked shot - RF100mm on Canon RP (Helicon)
 Viewed:  709 Time(s)

Example.jpg


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