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Preserving old labels
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John S. White
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PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 04:39    Post subject: Preserving old labels  

A friend has recently written to me asking for advice about preserving old specimen labels. He has some that are in danger of falling apart or are already breaking up into pieces. I would like to hear from those of you who have more experience that I do in dealing with this problem. What techniques work for you?
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Jon Mommers




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PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 05:26    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

Hi John,
have had success in saving some old german labels that came with a nice Italian Sulphur. They were falling apart, including acid burns ( I guess). I laminated them in business card pouches and they appear to be stable.

This is not ideal, however I could find no other way to preserve them.

For labels that are not in such a bad condition, a number of collectors here in Australia store their labels in stamp albums with the clear plastic strip or use acid free envelopes available from bank note and coin dealers.

I have no doubt that there are far more professional means to curate these labels and would like to know what others including museums do to safe this evidence of a specimens provenance.

Cheers
Jon
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Carles Curto




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PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 06:13    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

Interesting for someone, not interesting for some other people. Jordi Fabre recuperates a very old and very interesting (itself) label. Jordi can tell the story of this label.
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lluis




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PostPosted: Oct 09, 2008 10:31    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

Good afternoon.

Being also a passionate of books, I try to know how to preserve the paper.

-For acid paper, one should first to neutralize the acid.
That is done professionally with trimetilamine (a poisonous gas; do not try at home), but at home, letting the label in a sealed container that has a small cup with domestic aqueous ammonia solution during some weeks, will do same work.

I think that in Mineralogical Record was many time ago told that there are leaves of paper that neutralized the acid in the paper, letting the leaves inside the book.
It could do same for the labels...

Then, when you have the paper neutralized, it could be reinforced using some film forming resin.
I would always though in polyvinyl alcohol in aqueous solution, if ink resist water, or then in metal lack in solvent if water sensitive.
Metal lack could be softened adding alcanfor, if my memory serves me correctly, so, you get also the paper resistant to bacteria.

With bets wishes

Lluís
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PostPosted: Oct 10, 2008 05:23    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

Thank you Ilius for your comments, but I believe that my friend is looking for something simpler. For one thing, I do not believe that very old labels are going to deteriorate further because of acid if they are preserved carefully in something like glassine envelopes. I was hoping that someone might recommend a simple backing that is easy to use and relatively easy to find, especially for the labels that are breaking up. Could you not glue the pieces to acid-free paper using something like water-soluble white glue? Is there a tape that does not turn yellow over time? There must be an easy process out there that someone knows about.
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lluis




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PostPosted: Oct 10, 2008 15:43    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

Good afternoon, Mr. White/List

Simple method: use carboximetilcellulose (the colowall glue; easily prepared from the powder and water) to glue and consolidate the label (paint the back; if thick enough, very few will trespass).
Place the glued label over a siliconed paper (what rests when you peel off adhesive labels), the glue touched the silicone, and let dry between to glasses.
That ensures that you will have a prefectly "flat" or "ironed" label.

Then store the labels letting a piece of the preserving paper that is mentioned by the Mineralogical Record

That ensures that the acid will be neutralized...

It is shorter to do that than to write.... :-)

Hope that serves


Lluís


P.D.: white glue in water makes a very hard film, what could produce that the label breaks.
There is Paraloid, that is an acrylic polymer in solvent that is used to restore ancient artifacts: does not discolor, and is very stable to aging....But I fear that is also very hard.
Carboximetilcellulose is readily available (the glue used to glue paper to a wall...), does not discolor and is slightly basic, protecting the paper.
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Jordi Fabre
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PostPosted: Oct 14, 2008 16:01    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

As Carles mentioned on his post: https://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?p=2221#2221 I have an interesting history related with old labels.

I won't name names. Long ago I sold to a prominent collector an old historic specimen, it was an Epidote from Knappenwand with Byssolite and Apatite-(CaF). The specimen was pretty but its real value was the related label. It was a wonderful label from Archduke Stephan Franz Victor von Habsburg-Lothringen. You can see his biography and his label's image here: https://www.minrec.org/labels.asp?colid=596

I kept my relationship with the collector, and we always talked about this label and he seemed to be fascinated with it. Time passed, and one day I bought his collection. Anxious I searched for the Archduke Stephan Franz Victor von Habsburg-Latrine label and I didn't find it. The specimen yes, but not the label.
Very disappointed, I continued preparing and cleaning the specimens of this collection. Suddenly, in the same box of the Knappenwand Epidote and below the tissue at the bottom I saw something. I removed the tissue and Voilà! there was the Archduke Stephan Franz Victor von Habsburg-Lothringen label, folded in two and a little bit scratched due to the bad conservation state that the collector gave to the label.

He always mentioned this label as one of his highlights, and he simply folded it (damaging it) and he hid it beneath the specimen, further damaging a little bit more the label!.

The human condition never ceases to surprise me....

Jordi
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Brooks




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PostPosted: Oct 15, 2008 07:00    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

I too have a number of old labels, one from Hugh Ford and one from John Sinkankas. I treat these as treasures as much as the minerals they accompanied. They came to me in good shape and I feel a real responsibility to keep them that way. They are history!
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PostPosted: Jun 03, 2009 07:55    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

When cataloging my collection I have a quarto sheet that contains specimen details and is laid out as follows:
Number, name, locality
Followed by a photograph of the specimen that I have taken - sometimes back and front views.
Followed by a written description highlighting any key points and associations that I am able to determine.
SIze of the specimen plus the size of largest xls and size of associated mineral xls.
Cost
Date of acquistion
From whom acquired or self collection notes
Other miscellaneous notes such as details if featured in a publication or questions I may have that are unknown to me regarding the specimen - such as doubts on locality or associated minerals.
Then a brief note if radioactive or water soluble (both remind me to take extra care if cleaning or handling etc.)

On the back of this sheet I include all former labels and any other collector or dealer photographs of the specimen if applicable and any other former collector notes.

These former collector labels are affixed with photo corners: i.e. they are attached to each corner of the label without actually gluing or damaging the label in any way.
This sheet is then inserted in plastic sleeve to protect and make it easier to file and view, in that current and former information can be seen readily.

If the old labels are fragile I place them in a plastic sleeve (used by stamp collectors) before affixing to the sheet.

Sometimes I add an additional sheet containing locality maps or attach a scan of a locality map on the back, particularly if self collected.

If he specimen is sold or traded the sheet and all labels, plus my labels are provided with the specimen to the new owner.
I retain the electronic information and digital photographs for my future reference.

This enables the labels to stay with the specimen, together with my notes for the next collector (assuming that they wish to keep that info).

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PostPosted: Jun 03, 2009 15:25    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

Keith

I find the weight to be very valuable, especially if something would happen to the collector him/herself and someone less knowledgable about minerals have to take care of/dispose of the collection. The weight is especially valueble in larger collections where several or many people have regular access i.e. educational/university collections etc.
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Carles Millan
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PostPosted: Jun 03, 2009 15:47    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

Hi!

Collectors have always been advised to register the weight of their specimens for identification purposes. But nowadays, with the advent of the digital photography, I think it is no longer needed. If you keep several photos of each one of your specimens in different positions, the weight does not matter much.

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PostPosted: Jun 03, 2009 16:10    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

Carles,

That is exactly the design decision I made when writing my mineral cataloging software. In addition to photos, I do track the dimensions of the specimen, but not the weight. I believe Rock Currier's catalog software takes the opposite approach, recording weight but eschewing the dimensions.

Keith, you are recording more information than most collectors, and this is admirable as we are only temporary caretakers of these object, and need to preserve as much info as possible. In terms of preserving labels, I like to keep them all in a glassine envelope (such as used for stamps) which is acid free and protects them. If the card stock you are mounting the labels on is not acid free, there may be some degradation of the labels.

Bob
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PostPosted: Jun 04, 2009 06:53    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

It is very good to print an image of the specimen on the label itself, a specimen number (also found on the specimen of course) and the weight.
Number on specimen may deteriorate/fall of with time.
Of course poor handling may change the weight on a few specimens in a collecition,
but hopefully not too much and only a very limited number.
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PostPosted: Jun 06, 2009 04:00    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

I have taken shots of specimens with old labels,I have to do it a second time.
I have printed my own labels,I try.
I have seen a guy,he has a complete document about the mineral,where he has baught and when,how much.
On the document he joins a picture of the sample,with max lengh,and where are crystals,their lengh,no way to mistake.
I used to think that the best way to do is to print a label directly on a photo of the specimen,and write the history of the specimen on the backside,for the moment I only write the history,and try to draw what the mineral looks like(Quite sure it's a bad english,sorry!)
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parfaitelumiere




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PostPosted: Jun 06, 2009 04:03    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

keith,this is how the guy does,except photos,and lots of infos you add.
Your idea is really interesting!
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Gail




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PostPosted: Jun 06, 2009 10:47    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

We are very concerned when specimens come with no labels other than the dealers. We also ask them to give us the history as they know it and, often, they come back with the old labels. They sometimes need to be reminded that people DO want them. I should imagine it is hard to keep thousands of labels organized, but if enough of us are showing our desire for any and all labels, it might give dealers and impetus?

Since we never restrict ourselves to one, two or three dealers, but scores of dealers I hope we can make it clear that labels are of great value to us.
A little competition to please the customer might not be a bad thing ?

Okay, back to getting things organized for the MAD meeting here, at our home, today. Crawfish creole, chicken canneloni, sherry potabella mushrooms and lemony artichoke hearts.
Oh, and fresh cornbread with jalepenos and cheese as well as cheesecake and freshly baked brownies. My house smells like a chocolate factory at the moment!
Cheers!

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Jordi Fabre
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PostPosted: Jun 06, 2009 11:26    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

We suppose to be so lucky to get one of your wonderful photographical reportages about the MAD's meeting?

Please! ;-)

Jordi

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PostPosted: Jun 06, 2009 11:34    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

When I "curate" a specimen, I try to collect as much information about it as possible. Much of the history of the specimen comes from the old labels and tracking down people who know something of the dealers whose labels are with the specimen. As an example of the kinds of information I track, see a sample printout for one of my specimens. All this info is kept in a database which, as I continue my research, I then add to, and printout another sheet to go with the collection. Whenever I sell a specimen from my collection, a copy of this sheet goes with it, along with all the labels.


RG1060.jpg
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Sample printout of catalog sheet from my collection
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PostPosted: Jun 06, 2009 12:31    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

Charging the batteries on both my cameras as I type!
Will do Jordi. Cheers.

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PostPosted: Jun 06, 2009 13:14    Post subject: Re: Preserving old labels  

good job too gneissWare.
I think I will have to work this way too.
Just a question,how to be sure that a mineral comes from a special collection?
I think we have to show the specimen to a guy who knew the special collection before dissolved?
All is confidence in fact?
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