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Help? Identifying if any of these are genuine citrine?
  
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tynarose614




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PostPosted: Aug 21, 2020 17:30    Post subject: Help? Identifying if any of these are genuine citrine?  

Hi guys! Beginner mineral/gemstone collector here. Before I knew any better I ordered from mostly crystal shops as they seem to be everywhere online and are easy to find. After doing research, I saw many people recommend against buying from psychic crystal type shops if you truly want genuine authentic pieces. Many suggested it would be much better to buy from actual geologists, miners, or fossil collectors as they have experience in properly identifying their products. I was interested in citrine, and I was wondering if anybody on here could help me identify as best as possible through photos, if at least one of them is actual citrine. I read natural citrine is actually very rare and hard to come by. I read that most citrine is actually heated amethyst from Brazil, or smokey quartz. So below I attached 3 types I have from 3 different places.
First photo of the 2 small pieces are from some crystal/psychic type shop and listed as from Brazil, very cheap (only a few dollars), after checking the heated amethyst photos from google I am 99% sure it is NOT citrine due to the inconsistent color distribution.

Second photos are from Inner Vision Crystals which was recommended all over reddit as well as other forums, they seem to be very knowledgeable and honest and get their crystals straight from the mine and auctions. Price was more expensive, I stated my concern to them about citrine and they assured me it was natural and untreated, The only thing worrying me is that it's listed as from Brazil... but I read online that citrine doesn't naturally form in Brazil.

Third is from Crystal River Gems and identified as natural (not dyed or processed) citrine from Zambia, Africa. It is much different than any other mineral I have, this one is VERY blurry and smokey inside.

Any thoughts, help or experience with these places would be much appreciated. Thank you guys



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tynarose614




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PostPosted: Aug 21, 2020 17:31    Post subject: Re: Help? Identifying if any of these are genuine citrine?  

This is the 2nd from Brazil


B9EC53CF-7869-4667-8C16-6B53632A4C7F.jpeg
 Mineral: Citrine
 Locality:
Brazil
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tynarose614




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PostPosted: Aug 21, 2020 17:33    Post subject: Re: Help? Identifying if any of these are genuine citrine?  

This was identified from Zambia


108C215B-EC20-40C7-A803-7C44916A61E9.jpeg
 Mineral: Citrine
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Zambia
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SteveB




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PostPosted: Aug 21, 2020 18:07    Post subject: Re: Help? Identifying if any of these are genuine citrine?  

Personally I would just assume these examples are all fake in some way (artificially grown or heated). Once removed from the matrix they were formed on they no longer have any context for their source location or authenticity of truly natural. The places you bought from use the word “Natural” because chemically true natural specimens are identical as lab grown. So thats the definition of natural they use it does NOT mean it came out of the ground and formed by natural geological processes. Besides stores that sell these are like the fifth set of hands the specimen has been through and there is never a certification process for the source, so “where it came from” can change with each change of hands. Once its been cut or broken from the matrix it formed on all quartz varieties are pretty much impossible to identify to a location. I find it very suspect none of yours show any matrix at all so as I said, personally I would assume they are molested specimens. New Age sellers you can be 99% certain its not something out of the ground. The advice you were given and chose to ignore was correct. Buy from miners, collectors, mineral suppliers etc.
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Bob Harman




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PostPosted: Aug 21, 2020 18:10    Post subject: Re: Help? Identifying if any of these are genuine citrine?  

Mineral collectors and jewelers have differing definitions of citrine, the yellow variety of the mineral quartz.

I personally have a narrow definition, for me citrine is the saturated and clear yellow quartz variety with, at least, the potential for use in jewelry. As you noted, true citrine is uncommon, being found in only a few localities. Most yellowish tinted quartz, from whatever origin, is not true citrine. I agree.

Based on your your photos, I would say that none of your examples is true citrine as none has the potential for use in jewelry. As I said, to me, potential use for jewelry is important in calling an example true citrine.

My opinion, Bob
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tynarose614




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PostPosted: Aug 21, 2020 18:45    Post subject: Re: Help? Identifying if any of these are genuine citrine?  

SteveB wrote:
Personally I would just assume these examples are all fake in some way (artificially grown or heated). Once removed from the matrix they were formed on they no longer have any context for their source location or authenticity of truly natural. The places you bought from use the word “Natural” because chemically true natural specimens are identical as lab grown. So thats the definition of natural they use it does NOT mean it came out of the ground and formed by natural geological processes. Besides stores that sell these are like the fifth set of hands the specimen has been through and there is never a certification process for the source, so “where it came from” can change with each change of hands. Once its been cut or broken from the matrix it formed on all quartz varieties are pretty much impossible to identify to a location. I find it very suspect none of yours show any matrix at all so as I said, personally I would assume they are molested specimens. New Age sellers you can be 99% certain its not something out of the ground. The advice you were given and chose to ignore was correct. Buy from miners, collectors, mineral suppliers etc.


Thank you so much. The most light colored one actually is from mineral suppliers which get straight from the miners. But I believe it is a Smokey Quartz not a citrine. Thank you so much for you tip on purchasing specimen on the matrix. My interest came from wanting the most natural and close to the source specimen as possible. It is difficult to find. Is there any reputable website you recommend? Once again your knowledge and advice is highly appreciated.
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Volkmar Stingl




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PostPosted: Aug 22, 2020 00:47    Post subject: Re: Help? Identifying if any of these are genuine citrine?  

SteveB wrote:
Personally I would just assume these examples are all fake in some way (artificially grown or heated).


None of these pieces are lab-grown or cut! Maybe heated, or simply naturally iron-stained.
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tynarose614




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PostPosted: Aug 22, 2020 01:47    Post subject: Re: Help? Identifying if any of these are genuine citrine?  

Volkmar Stingl wrote:
SteveB wrote:
Personally I would just assume these examples are all fake in some way (artificially grown or heated).


None of these pieces are lab-grown or cut! Maybe heated, or simply naturally iron-stained.


Yes I agree, I strongly believe the 2 small ones with uneven color distribution are heat treated amethyst being sold as citrine. The lightest colored one is from a reputable place which gets straight from mines. I am wondering about any website you might recommend for genuine specimens? I would like natural and close to the source as possible. Thank you so much
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Riccardo Modanesi




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PostPosted: Aug 22, 2020 03:38    Post subject: Re: Help? Identifying if any of these are genuine citrine?  

Hi to everybody! According to the photos it looks likes a quartz with goethite inclusions. I advise you to try observing it with a microscope. Genuine, synthetic and heated citrine (formerly amethyst) are very difficult to distinguish even by a gemmological analysis.
Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.

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Hi! I'm a collector of minerals since 1973 and a gemmologist. On Summer I always visit mines and quarries all over Europe looking for minerals! Ok, there is time to tell you much much more! Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.
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Bob Harman




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PostPosted: Aug 22, 2020 07:56    Post subject: Re: Help? Identifying if any of these are genuine citrine?  

tynarose614 wrote:
[quote= I am wondering any website you recommend for genuine specimen? I would like natural and close to the source as possible. Thank you so much
.

Since you wish to acquire a genuine citrine , I suggest you start with some dealers' website. Ask to look for what you want and the price range you are willing to pay. Make sure the example has a label of it's origin.

Otherwise, there are many jewelers in New York who might know of a source of uncut citrine quartz jewelry grade stones. Just tell them what you are looking for and what price range you want. Someone will be able to help you. Start calling the jewelers.

Be aware that using my narrow definition of true citrine, anything less than a jewelry grade stone may not be a true citrine. Hope this helps, Bob
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James Catmur
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PostPosted: Aug 22, 2020 08:26    Post subject: Re: Help? Identifying if any of these are genuine citrine?  

tynarose614 wrote:
I would like natural and close to the source as possible. Thank you so much


This site is non-commercial so we can't recommend sites. Sorry
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Bob Morgan




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PostPosted: Aug 22, 2020 22:00    Post subject: Re: Help? Identifying if any of these are genuine citrine?  

The Zambian citrine is probably correct. The Zambians come to Tucson every year with many of these. Most are darker, but ones this light are not rare. They are mainly sold for cutting and have dings like on yours.
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