We use cookies to show content based on your preferences. If you continue to browse you accept their use and installation. More information. >

FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board
The place to share your mineralogical experiences


Spanish message board






Newest topics and users posts
01 Dec-13:19:30 Re: collection of mineralenzo (Mineralenzo)
01 Dec-13:18:56 Re: collection of firmo espinar (Firmo Espinar)
01 Dec-11:39:01 Collection of mineralenzo (Mineralenzo)
01 Dec-11:31:03 Re: may i get a read (Alfredo)
01 Dec-11:12:35 Re: collection of michael shaw (Michael Shaw)
01 Dec-10:59:50 Re: may i get a read (Kevin Schofield)
01 Dec-10:19:17 Re: may i get a read (Bob Carnein)
01 Dec-06:44:23 May i get a read (Jim Hill)
30 Nov-23:52:49 Re: don lum collection (Don Lum)
30 Nov-15:38:26 Presentation of new members - tripti and enzo (Firmo Espinar)
30 Nov-14:49:09 Re: presentation of new members - reference thread (Philippe Durand)
30 Nov-11:02:36 Re: presentation of new members - reference thread (Don Lum)
30 Nov-10:53:14 Re: presentation of new members - reference thread (Mineralenzo)
30 Nov-00:11:09 Re: new generation for picture - ploum (Ploum)
29 Nov-15:54:06 Re: presentation of new members - reference thread (Don Lum)
29 Nov-12:35:56 Re: presentation of new members - reference thread (Philippe Durand)
29 Nov-09:34:07 Re: cannon slr with stacking (Vinoterapia)
29 Nov-07:59:05 Re: cannon slr with stacking (James Catmur)
29 Nov-07:56:57 Re: cannon slr with stacking (James Catmur)
29 Nov-07:51:42 Re: cannon slr with stacking (James Catmur)
29 Nov-06:57:27 Re: collection of volkmar stingl (Volkmar Stingl)
29 Nov-05:05:04 Re: presentation of new members - reference thread (Triptichauhan01)
28 Nov-22:03:31 Re: don lum collection (Don Lum)
28 Nov-18:40:31 The mizunaka collection - quartz gwindel (Am Mizunaka)
28 Nov-15:28:57 Re: collection of sante celiberti (Sante Celiberti)

For lists of newest topics and postings click here


RSS RSS

View unanswered posts

Why and how to register

Index Index
 FAQFAQ RegisterRegister  Log inLog in
 {Forgotten your password?}Forgotten your password?  

Like
87581


The time now is Dec 01, 2021 13:33

Search for a textSearch for a text   

A general guide for using the Forum with some rules and tips
The information provided within this Forum about localities is only given to allow reference to them. Any visit to any of the localities requires you to obtain full permission and relevant information prior to your visit. FMF is strictly against any illicit activities related to collecting minerals.
Tracing specimens from the Duchess of Northumberland (1787-1866)
  
  Index -> The histories behind mineral specimens
Like


View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message

TomCotterell




Joined: 31 Aug 2021
Posts: 6
Location: Forest of Dean

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Aug 31, 2021 10:19    Post subject: Tracing specimens from the Duchess of Northumberland (1787-1866)  

As part of my research into historic British mineral collectors I am trying to trace any specimens from Lady Charlotte Florentia Percy, nee Clive. Her collection was auctioned by Sotheby's in 1968 with the following buyers who I am trying to trace:

The most determined buyer was “Thomas, M. W.” (10 lots) referred to as “W. Thomas” in handwritten notes in an original catalogue. Other buyers included “Minerals Engineering” (3 lots), “Max Davis” (1 lot), “Vartenian” (5 lots), “Ulster Museum” (1 lot), “Seiferheld & Co.” [probably the New York-based art dealer] (1 lot), “Thornton, T. M.” (1 lot) and “Bizony, M. T.” (1 lot) (Sotheby & Co. catalogue, 9th July 1968).

I have already had a response from Ulster Museum and been informed of who M. W. Thomas is. I am also aware of the company Max Davis Stones, but all of the others have proved elusive to various internet searches. Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

Tom
Amgueddfa Cymru - National Museum Wales
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

James Catmur
Site Admin



Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 900
Location: Cambridge


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Aug 31, 2021 10:41    Post subject: Re: Tracing specimens from the Duchess of Northumberland (1787-1866)  

Assuming they got dispersed - are there any old labels we should look out for?
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

TomCotterell




Joined: 31 Aug 2021
Posts: 6
Location: Forest of Dean

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Aug 31, 2021 10:46    Post subject: Re: Tracing specimens from the Duchess of Northumberland (1787-1866)  

Oh, if only it was that simple!

Unfortunately, the whole collection was dispersed, so the first step is trying to find a genuine specimen and then hoping that it has a distinctive label associated with it.

Needle in haystack springs to mind. My hope is that some of the specimen might just have been sold on as "ex Duchess of Northumberland" because of the prestigious name, but in all likelyhood if a collector owner died and the specimens were not labelled they might have been thrown out, or their details lost.

Fingers crossed for a breakthrough.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

lluis




Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 674

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Aug 31, 2021 11:43    Post subject: Re: Tracing specimens from the Duchess of Northumberland (1787-1866)  

Well, maybe too naive, but if sold in auction, buyers could be known. And for what you say, they are...
Then, taking in account that it is not too old in time, many would be still alive. And addresses be known. Just question to ask for them... In UK, I suppose that would not be a great trouble, coming from a known museum and with a good reason.,
Then contact this address, If changed, anyone will know where they have gone, so, just more time, but find sure...
If they have still items, well, some are found. If sold, they know name of buyer. So again more time, but they could be find....
Maybe not all could be, but most part, Just question of time and looking at documents...

Wish it was so easy in my country..... :-(

with best wishes

Lluís
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

ian jones




Joined: 29 Jul 2009
Posts: 111
Location: london


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Aug 31, 2021 13:00    Post subject: Re: Tracing specimens from the Duchess of Northumberland (1787-1866)  

Hi Tom

M Thomas is definitely Morrison Thomas. I knew him well many years ago, we used to go up to Weardale buying rocks off the miners and collected together quite a bit. And yes, he did sell his collection to Oxford. Unfortunately lost contact many years ago, but Dave Lloyd might just still have his contact details, will ask him for you.

On another subject, have acquired some interesting Welsh bits since we last spoke. Will be in touch.

cheers ian
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

TomCotterell




Joined: 31 Aug 2021
Posts: 6
Location: Forest of Dean

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Aug 31, 2021 15:40    Post subject: Re: Tracing specimens from the Duchess of Northumberland (1787-1866)  

Thanks Ian,

Morrison Thomas has several websites dedicated to his other passions - woodturning and acting - so I should be able to get in touch. However, it has been suggested by Brian Lloyd that he attended the auction on behalf of a mining company in which case the specimens might be harder to trace.

Good to hear that you have some more Welsh specimens. I look forward to seeing them.

All the best,
Tom
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

TomCotterell




Joined: 31 Aug 2021
Posts: 6
Location: Forest of Dean

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Aug 31, 2021 15:47    Post subject: Re: Tracing specimens from the Duchess of Northumberland (1787-1866)  

lluis wrote:
Well, maybe too naive, but if sold in auction, buyers could be known. And for what you say, they are...
Then, taking in account that it is not too old in time, many would be still alive. And addresses be known. Just question to ask for them... In UK, I suppose that would not be a great trouble, coming from a known museum and with a good reason.,
Then contact this address, If changed, anyone will know where they have gone, so, just more time, but find sure...
If they have still items, well, some are found. If sold, they know name of buyer. So again more time, but they could be find....
Maybe not all could be, but most part, Just question of time and looking at documents...

Wish it was so easy in my country..... :-(

with best wishes

Lluís


It would appear that some of the bidders used pseudonyms which will make tracing them much harder....

In theory the addresses of the succesful bidders should be recorded, but in the UK regulations known as GDPR mean that many companies will not divulge personal details such as names or addresses. I have the names, but in many cases trying to fit them to specific person is very difficult.

Brian Lloyd, who worked for the auction house at that time has provided me with some useful leads, but at least one of the purchasers was from overseas and another was last known in a care home some twenty years ago so tracing specimens might be challenging.

Regards,
Tom
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   
Display posts from previous:   
   Index -> The histories behind mineral specimens   All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1
    

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


All pictures, text, design © Forum FMF 2006-2021


Powered by FMF