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Corundum with green?? xls
  
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fuss




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PostPosted: Feb 21, 2022 09:13    Post subject: Corundum with green?? xls  

Looking for some help on the green crystals. Maybe someone has seen this mineral combo before and can give me a better location for it and what the green minerals are?

I picked this up at my local shop and the label that came with it said "Ruby from North Carolina". I can't find anything comparable online to confirm that and I suspect it is from elsewhere.



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fuss




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PostPosted: Feb 21, 2022 09:14    Post subject: Re: Corrundum with green?? xls  

another image.


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fuss




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PostPosted: Feb 21, 2022 09:15    Post subject: Re: Corrundum with green?? xls  

been a while since i have posted here, can multiple images be placed in one post?


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fuss




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PostPosted: Feb 21, 2022 09:16    Post subject: Re: Corrundum with green?? xls  

another image.


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Riccardo Modanesi




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PostPosted: Feb 21, 2022 09:19    Post subject: Re: Corrundum with green?? xls  

Hi Fuss!
I think I'm doubtless this time: it's a ruby with zoisite (green) and hornblende (black, small), probably from Tanzania.
Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.

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PostPosted: Feb 21, 2022 14:06    Post subject: Re: Corundum with green?? xls  

Read this explanation of how to post up to 15 images in a single post

https://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?p=19493#19493

fuss wrote:
can multiple images be placed in one post?
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SteveB




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PostPosted: Feb 21, 2022 14:42    Post subject: Re: Corrundum with green?? xls  

Riccardo Modanesi wrote:
Hi Fuss!
I think I'm doubtless this time: it's a ruby with zoisite (green) and hornblende (black, small), probably from Tanzania.
Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.


I agree except it NOT ruby, Ruby is the gemmy clear form which this clearly isn’t, just red/pink corundum. There is enough misinformation out there with regards to valuable gemstones . While ruby is a red corundum is true, the reverse is absolutely not, red corundum is merely red corundum, not Ruby unless its clear . Ditto with sapphire which is all non-red corundum.

As a mineral forum I think we should be setting an example and being as accurate as we can be. And not encouraging the scammers out there by reinforcing their lies or getting peoples hopes up about fantastic wealth. I find it disappointing the ruby be presented here as an answer when it so very clearly isnt.
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PostPosted: Feb 21, 2022 14:57    Post subject: Re: Corrundum with green?? xls  

Could be that someone picked it up at one of the tourist gem mines in North Carolina, but the operators there often "salt" the mines with scraps of gem rough from all over the world so, as Riccardo said, it could have come from Tanzania.

Several years ago, after the Tucson show was over and the show tents were being taken down, I saw a man sweeping up remnants of broken amethyst and pyrite from the ground and putting the sweepings into barrels (along with the cigarette butts, dried dog poop and other debris). I jokingly commented that some real gemstones might be going into the trash, and he answered, "Oh no, this isn't going into the trash - It's going to get trucked to a gem mine back East." And the only ones I know of are the ones in North Carolina. (I hope that guy was joking, but I fear maybe not.)
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SteveB




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PostPosted: Feb 21, 2022 16:48    Post subject: Re: Corundum with green?? xls  

That’s horrible behaviour and unfortunately believable. There’s one born every minute though so unethical practices will always exist everywhere and there are plenty of poor people and nations willing to supply cheap worthless stuff to people who can up value it greatly to scam others. Miners get to know how to “read” the geology and know if the rich valuable specimens might exist where they are digging and take their time but where it's clear that say real rubies won't exist in the rock they are breaking up there is a line of people willing to take that rock and cut anything red into a gemstone shape and sell it as ruby to suckers who don't know any better. And it only takes a look in say Mindat to know if the real mineral exists in your state for dodgy claim owners in barren areas to seed them with waste from Africa and start a rush they can profit from. It's not like most people understand or will ever test their specimens so any and all claims will go on to part people from their money. It's not just the bottom feeders doing this, the big companies do too. For example, nobody wants to buy brown diamond jewelry for their girlfriends even though you can get large stones fairly cheap, yet the big companies instead call them “champagne diamonds” and add another zero or two to the price tag and people gladly pay for it.

Alfredo’s answer is also a good reason you should never believe a specimen is from a location, unless you dug the specimen out of the ground yourself (not plucked off the surface, where it may be a “seed” or accidental drop from another collector. Location should not matter one bit really to a collector as it will never be proven even if it is provable so why give a damn? If you want a particular mineral from a particular “famous” location you can find dealers at the location who can provide something you can be reasonably confident about coming from the location as claimed whereas buying Spanish Pyrite from someone in India or China you are not likely getting an honest item.

So, this rock is probably red/pink corundum in zoisite as answered, Its extremely cheap and easily available and worthless really. But pretty enough as a shelf specimen. I have some in my collection. Red/pink corundum is far more common than true ruby (which should be defined too by a very specific shade of red otherwise it's just the, but also as I mentioned Ruby and Sapphire refer to the gem grade variety meaning it needs to be clear but it's still corundum. There's no certainty your specimen even originated in a location that produced Rubies, the geological process may have only gone part of the way towards producing rubies but stopped at only making lots of opaque reddish corundum. I was also wondering if the green may have been an epidote but I don't know enough if it can be so associated with corundum, most zoisite I’ve seen is paler green and very opaque while this is more crystalline.
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fuss




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PostPosted: Feb 21, 2022 21:31    Post subject: Re: Corundum with green?? xls  

Yes Steve I was thinking Epidote initially as well as Diopside or another Pyroxene. I have tried searching for Zoisite that resembles this and have had no luck. I have a fair amount of the ubiquitous "ruby in Zoisite" from Tanzania and have not seen any crystals in this form nor color as of yet. I will get some high detail images of the xls and post them.

Aside from that, the debate about ruby vs red/pink corundum is of little interest to me, I am aware of the difference personally. I was stating what the label said.
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PostPosted: Feb 22, 2022 00:15    Post subject: Re: Corundum with green?? xls  

About 30 years ago, I paid to collect on the "dumps" of a well-known pegmatite in Amelia County, Virginia, USA, which mostly comprised several hours of pushing around sand and rocks. After finding dozens of broken bits of a variety of exotic minerals, I began to realize the owners had dug a pit, filled it with sand, and topped it with a few out-of-place boulders.

I talked enough with one of the employees to confirm my suspicions; every few days, the owners would "salt" the pit with fragments of minerals from somewhere else (think small broken crystals of Brazilian amethyst), then use a bulldozer to mix everything together!!! Everyone found something, so everyone was happy!!!

Too bad for at least some garnets and topazes labeled as coming from Amelia, though, as the practice certainly calls their true provenance into question...
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fuss




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PostPosted: Feb 22, 2022 11:56    Post subject: Re: Corundum with green?? xls  

Here are some macro images, I have not done a hardness test yet. Will do later.


corundum and green2a.jpg
 Mineral: Corundum
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 Viewed:  1944 Time(s)

corundum and green2a.jpg


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fuss




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PostPosted: Feb 22, 2022 11:58    Post subject: Re: Corundum with green?? xls  




corundum and green1f.jpg
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fuss




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PostPosted: Feb 22, 2022 11:59    Post subject: Re: Corundum with green?? xls  

note the blue corundum?


corundum and green1c.jpg
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fuss




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PostPosted: Feb 22, 2022 12:01    Post subject: Re: Corundum with green?? xls  

one more after this.


corundum and green2c.jpg
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fuss




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PostPosted: Feb 22, 2022 12:03    Post subject: Re: Corundum with green?? xls  

last one.


corundum and green1a.jpg
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PostPosted: Feb 22, 2022 13:24    Post subject: Re: Corundum with green?? xls  

Michael Shaw wrote:
fuss wrote:
last one. I apologize about the multiple image posts I tried and failed to accomplish the procedure in James link..


In order to post multiple photos in the same post, you need to use the PREVIEW button after uploading the first photo. This will open another set of dialog boxes that you can use for the next photo. When you are finished with the next photo, you can hit the preview button again for a new photo. you can do this up to 15 times, and when you have checked everything, then hit the SUBMIT button to post all your photos.
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Riccardo Modanesi




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PostPosted: Feb 23, 2022 09:08    Post subject: Re: Corrundum with green?? xls  

HI Steven!
Ok, there are different opinions regarding the quality of a red corundum, especially regarding up to which clarity a red corundum should be called a ruby. I studied gemology in Germany (Idar-Oberstein), and their opinion (which is what I learned) is that a corundum should show the two lines in red at the spectroscope to be considered a ruby, which means it MUST contain chrome ("Ohne Chrom kein Rubin!"), no matter how clear it is. The same rule is said for emerald among green beryls as well.
Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.


SteveB wrote:


I agree except it NOT ruby; Ruby is the gemmy clear form which this clearly isn’t, just red/pink corundum. There is enough misinformation out there with regards to valuable gemstones. While ruby is a red corundum is true, the reverse is absolutely not, red corundum is merely red corundum, not Ruby unless it's clear. Ditto with sapphire which is all non-red corundum.

As a mineral forum I think we should be setting an example and being as accurate as we can be. And not encouraging the scammers out there by reinforcing their lies or getting peoples hopes up about fantastic wealth. I find it disappointing the ruby be presented here as an answer when it so very clearly isn't.

_________________
Hi! I'm a collector of minerals since 1973 and a gemmologist. On Summer I always visit mines and quarries all over Europe looking for minerals! Ok, there is time to tell you much much more! Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.
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fuss




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PostPosted: Mar 05, 2022 10:35    Post subject: Re: Corundum with green?? xls  

Maybe the label wasn't wrong for this specimen being from North Carolina? Chunky Gal Mountain, Clay County NC seems to be a possible location for this specimen assuming the green minerals could be Actinolite or another Amphibole? Anyone here familiar with that locale?
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