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Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!
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alfredo
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PostPosted: Aug 05, 2009 11:45    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

Maybe you are right Jordi - Czechs have the highest percentage of color blind people in the population and the highest percentage of mineral collectors!
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PostPosted: Aug 05, 2009 11:48    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

Jordi

Your second theory is 100% correct in my opinion - it is how I work with dealers and very few know that I am color blind.

On your first theory the colorblind do see the world differently. I did this wonderful excercie once of looking at an aerial photo of a battle field and I was asked 'how many disguised weapons are there?' I could see lots as, while the color might be right, the shade abd form of the camoflage was wrong, but people who are not color blind see very few. This is a well known effect. And as I said before when out field collecting I look at things differently so find different things

James
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Tracy




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PostPosted: Aug 05, 2009 14:05    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

I'd have trouble accepting theory #1. It suggests that color-blindness in and of itself would get someone interested in minerals. I think that there are plenty of interests/hobbies that would appeal to someone who is color-blind - I doubt there's any difference in "interest potential" between a color-blind person and a non-color-blind person. There are also a lot of form- and detail-oriented things that do not involve minerals - the first thing that comes to mind is architecture. I'm more inclined to accept theory #2 than #1.

James, we have both red and green apples over here (and red/gold, and...). I bet you do over there as well. I just don't see "Granny smith green" in a LF pyro specimen.

Interesting statistics about the Czechs, Alfredo.

- Tracy

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PostPosted: Aug 05, 2009 14:59    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

Tracy

Maybe not in an LF pyro I agree (even though I am colorblind) but how about some of the other localities, like El Horcajo or San Andres in Spain or Bunker Hill?

I must admit that I find #1 strange - I started to collect because I loved the forms and the colors did not bother me either way but my color blind siblings collected different things like train numbers or coins!

James
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PostPosted: Aug 05, 2009 15:50    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

Hi, Alfredo/Tracy/James/list

I am used to the term apple green, even been spaniard (we have usually red apples...Or at least yellowones). I supposed ever that it refers to the young, not ripped ones, with a clearyellow that has a hint of yellow (sorry; in textile. Used to talk about blue reds and yellow reds and so.....)

I liked a lot of Alfredo for the japanese terms that exists...but many are not in a clear border... I always thought that we all see colors in a different way, just we use same word to name a thing that probably is differently perceived. I thought that we like one color or another because they produce a satisfactory stimulus when we saw certain, but not others.
Being just reward oriented, we prefer the ones that produce that reward....

And, certainly, probably if color blindness makes forms more apparent, colour blinds would make better crystallographers....and also better crystal collectors (mineral collectors)
It is said that good painters are all stereoscopically blind (I like to paint and draw...; not good. Just under average, being indulgent...... :-) )

Oh, I would like to see how another person see the world.
It would be probably so amazing..... :-) (I would never see world as the majority of you see it; you have an idea of how I see it, because i see world like a photo.....)

With best wishes

Lluís
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lluis




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PostPosted: Aug 05, 2009 15:52    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

Sorry, I tried to say for apples : a light green, with a hint of yellow.... :-)
Too tired... :-(

With best wishes

Lluís
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Aymeric




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PostPosted: Aug 05, 2009 16:00    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

Great topic !

I happen to be slightly color blind as well. I usually disintguish reds and greens, but some hues are hard to identify for me, depends also on the light conditions I think. Not long ago I took a look at some Pakistani diopside under chealsea filter and it was hell to determine the color, which was shifting from reddish to greenish , then redddish, then greenish again and so on. Agh ! I just gave up...
I have some difficulties with pinks, sometimes seeing the color where there isn't. Some Goshenite crystals I have show a miky lower half. rather white with some hues, which I'm unable to clearly indeitify, one second I see greyish hue, the other second I see pinkish hue.

I have a small specimen which bears very deep blue small aqua crystals along with tinyy (sum-millimeter) garnet crystals. When I bought it, I saw the garnets to be of red color, then maybe 2 years later while having a close look at it, I saw the garnet to be of green color, eh ? I took an even closer look with a x10, and no doubt, those were of green color.
I thought that a specimen bearing deep blue aqua with some green garnet was something pretty nice and me to feel happy about my new "discovery" ! Few months later, having again a look at it, the garnets were back to their red color.

It doesn't bother me in everyday life, but as an internet mineral trader, it can be very annoying not to be able to determine which color you're having in front of you.

Aymeric
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PostPosted: Aug 05, 2009 16:16    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

Hi, Aymeric

Could that be a trouble with metamerism?
In textile, metamerism refers to the change in perceived colour when illuminant changes (say, sunlight, bulb light, fluorescent light (and all fluorescents....). ....) A real trouble that makes life more interesting (and nerves more tense...... :-) )

With best wishes

Lluís
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PostPosted: Aug 06, 2009 05:50    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

Greetings lluis,

NEver heard about metamerism before, thank you for widening my world ! ;)

I found out about my colorblindness 17 years ago during the army test days. We had a dozen of Ishihara plates supposed to show numbers, but I could see only two of them.
THe soldier who was in front of me asked me with big round eyes:
"Are you colorblind ?
- Well, I don't know
- Well, yes you are !"
According to different kind of tests I've done ont he net, my condition would be deuteranomaly which is about perception of greens.


Cheers,

Aymeric
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James Catmur
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PostPosted: Aug 06, 2009 07:37    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

I have known for as long as I can remember. My grandmother was colorblind (it is rare for a woman to be colorblind) so my parents expected their male children to be color blind. When I was small and drew pictures the leaves were often brown and the tree trunks green, so it was clear that I had inheritted the condition.

It does not bother me that much but the advent of cheap color printing means that there are many documents I see that I cannot read (I am so colorblind that traffic lights go red, red, white!)

James
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Jordi Fabre
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PostPosted: Aug 06, 2009 07:54    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

About the theory #1, I don't mean that colorblind people have a kind of "super-powers", what I mean is different. I mean that they perceive the minerals in a different way than the non-colorblind and that way, for some reason, it seems to me to be very attractive, so it could explain the number of colorblind collecting minerals.

Beleive me, is a number of they. I'm still expecting if they (some are members of FMF) decide to communicate it here! ;-)

Jordi

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PostPosted: Aug 06, 2009 08:50    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

Jordi, I still have difficulties with theory #1. Yes it's true that colorblind perceive minerals differently than non-coloblind. They get exposed to MANY aspects of life in a different manner. But the likelihood of a colorblind individual being exposed to minerals as a pursuit of interest can't be much different from the likelihood of a non-colorblind individual. Apart from which, colorblind people are (I asssume) no more likely to become hobbyists or collectors than non-colorblind, likewise to have an interest in the natural sciences. Colorblind people can get engaged by black/white photography or sketching (I believe they would excel at both of these), sculpture, woodworking, coin or stamp collecting (?),, sports and/or sports memorabilia, etc etc. There are plenty of pursuits out there that do not rely heavily on color discrimination. And, difficulty discriminating between colors can be a turn-off to some people who might otherwise collect minerals - it all depends on their upbringing, natural tendencies, personal interests, and exposure throughout life.

What makes minerals colllecting different from the other things that I listed is that it is very multi-faceted, and people are drawn to it for a wide variety of reasons. But I'm more inclined to believe that if the number of colorblind people collecting minerals is greater than the global average, it is most likely coincidence. Sorry....

- Tracy

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PostPosted: Aug 06, 2009 15:12    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

I guess we would have to do a survey to find out! I have to admit that no one I know has ever admitted to me that they are color blind, so my evidence is that there are few color blind mineral collectors, but maybe I am wrong

James
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PostPosted: Aug 06, 2009 15:37    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

Hi, Aymeric

Well, if the soldier told you that, then, my metamerism is just gone.... :-)
It is completely off-topic, but metamerism is a trouble today. See, part of garments are not all dyed in same mills, If the parts show metamerism, when you try to sell them, you have a patchwork or even worse, in the street, they look like a patchwork.....

Anyway, is a very specific specilized toruble in textile mainly.....
Those crazy chemists :-) !

With best wishes

Lluís
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PostPosted: Aug 06, 2009 15:41    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

Hi, Tracy

Well, I think that color blind would place shapes in front of colour. So what Alfredo, James and Jordi said, makes for me a lot of sense. Being the data of Alfredo absolute, then it adds weight to that opinion..

On the other side, I would not recommend any colorblind to collect stamps...unless he get a completely friendly dealer. In old stamps, shades are very important to know which issue it is, at least in the countries I collect (and sometimes, you should have the two stamps to see the difference; and I am trained to see those minute differences..... ARRRRGGGHHHHHH!)

With best wishes from desperate fellow dealing with some tax swiss stamps....

Lluís
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PostPosted: Aug 06, 2009 15:44    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

Hi, James

I usually do not say that I am stereoscopically blind.
I only say to the most inner circle.

Not an advantage, so, why to tell that :-)

With best wishes

Lluís

P.D.: by the way, very impressive the collection of ephemera your ancestor build!
Hope to visit London at take a look! I really love those documents!
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PostPosted: Aug 06, 2009 15:58    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

James wrote:
....I have to admit that no one I know has ever admitted to me that they are color blind....

https://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?p=6417#6417
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PostPosted: Aug 06, 2009 18:56    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

Hi Lluis -

It seems you (and others?) are missing my point. I have already said that I thought colorblind people might make good crystallographers, so I'm not disagreeing with this part of the discussion. But, I still don't think that theory #1 (which is essentially that colorblind people are more likely to become mineral collectors because they can appreciate forms in this hobby - please correct me if I got it wrong) makes sense. I actually hesitated on whether or not to include stamps in my list., and after II submitted it I realized I should have chosen antiques instead. But these were just examples to support my argument. And Alfredo's numbers are, in my opinion, incomplete - if someone can prove that there is a higher percentage of colorblind (underlined) Czechs who are mineral collectors than anywhere else in the world, I would reconsider.

I can't explain my position any better, and not wishing to draw things out further, I withdraw it. In a friendly way, of course. :-)

- Tracy

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PostPosted: Aug 07, 2009 01:34    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

Hi, Tracy

Thanks a lot fot the message.
Of course, what I said was only my opinion, that is just that...
I could be very well wrong.

But it is an intersting for me field, and a way to learn a little more.
Before that, I never though in collectors that were colorblind.

With best wishes

Lluís
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James Catmur
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PostPosted: Aug 07, 2009 02:32    Post subject: Re: Color blind (daltonism). Disadvantages and advantages!  

Tracy

I can see your point on #1 and I agree with you. That said I would prefer to collect minerals to collecting stamps, so maybe color blind people do tend to gravitate to certain types of collecting. We also collect (inexpensive) art but I leave the color decisions on that to my wife as she can see the colors - I then just say if I like it or not (since we only buy things we both like).

Lluis

I have also recently discovered that I also suffer from exophoria - i.e. I see double as my eyes do not look at the same point. As a result my clever old brain has decided to ignore the image from my left eye. I did tests this week that show that the left eye works correctly but I am ignoring it. So while I can see stereoscopically I am doing so less than I used to. So what the sum of color blind and using a single eye will do I have no idea, but I will keep collecting minerals.

James
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