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alex chaus
Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 22
Location: FSU
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Posted: Oct 28, 2012 21:08 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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Hi, all.
Some contribution to calcite theme from Kyrgyzstan. All images provided are from the same location - Tereksay stibnite mine, collected at different levels during 80th to 2000 years. rusty film on some crystals is iron oxide hard to remove (any advise how to?). Sorry for images bad quality they are just from my catalog.
Alex
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Calcite twin Tereksay mine 5 by 3 cm |
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Calcite on quartz plates Tereksay mine big crystal about 3 by 3 cm, specimen about 20 by 20 cm |
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Calcite (complicated shape) Tereksay mine 13 by 15 cm |
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GneissWare
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1287
Location: California
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Posted: Oct 28, 2012 21:29 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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alex chaus wrote: | Hi, all.
rusty film on some crystals is iron oxide hard to remove (any advise how to?).
Alex |
Hi Alex,
In some parts of the world you can get Super Iron Out (google Super Iron Out MSDS for the chemistry). It is a buffered mix of Sodium hydrosulfite and Sodium metabisulfite. You can try it on a sample to make sure it doesn't etch the Calcite.
Bob
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alex chaus
Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 22
Location: FSU
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Posted: Oct 28, 2012 23:51 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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Thank you, Bob, I'll try to find or get it from somewhere abroad.
Alex
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Elise
Joined: 22 Dec 2009
Posts: 243
Location: New York State
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Posted: Nov 29, 2012 17:31 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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The "Calcite (complicated shape) Tereksay mine" specimen is very interesting!
Below is a neat specimen I've been trying to photograph. It has copper inclusions just under the surface which sparkle in the light, no luck showing that here yet. Some of the inclusions stick out of the faces. This is from Hancock, MI.
Cheers,
Elise
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Calcite included with Copper Hancock, MI 10 x 8 x 5 cm |
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35453 Time(s) |
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_________________ Elise Skalwold |
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Elise
Joined: 22 Dec 2009
Posts: 243
Location: New York State
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Posted: Nov 29, 2012 17:46 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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and one more - I was trying to capture the curved growth features on the crystal faces; turned into blow-out areas, but more or less shows it. This is from Sweetwater Mine, MO. The calcite is on galena, but the latter is not visible in this view.
Elise
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Calcite on Galena Sweetwater Mine, MO 7 x 4,5 x 2 cm |
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Calcite on Galena Sweetwater Mine, MO 7 x 4,5 x 2 cm |
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am mizunaka
Joined: 09 Apr 2010
Posts: 2039
Location: USA
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Posted: Mar 04, 2013 03:32 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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Quartz mostly replacing calcite. The backside has a few small areas of calcite visible.
A higher resolution version is here: https://www.mindat.org/xpic.php?fname=0269344001362379359.jpg
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Quartz after Calcite Dal'negorsk, Primorskiy Kray, Far-Eastern Region, Russia 10.7 x 8.4 cm |
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Elise
Joined: 22 Dec 2009
Posts: 243
Location: New York State
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Posted: May 28, 2013 18:19 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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Hi,
This is an old specimen, badly worn. The label indicates it is a twin. I was wondering how it grew - there doesn't seem to be a point of attachment, though one end and a side seems to have a reentrant angle and a seam respectively - I think that shows in the photo where I am holding it. Just thought it is neat.
Cheers
Elise
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Calcite twin Rossie, New York, USA 50 x 50 x 35 mm Old specimen, badly abraded. |
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Calcite twin Rossie, New York, USA 50 x 50 x 35 mm Old specimen, badly abraded. |
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Don Lum
Joined: 03 Sep 2012
Posts: 2856
Location: Arkansas
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Posted: May 28, 2013 18:34 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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IT IS NEAT!!
_________________ hogwild |
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Pete Richards
Site Admin
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 828
Location: Northeast Ohio
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Posted: May 28, 2013 20:11 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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Elise wrote: | Hi,
This is an old specimen, badly worn. The label indicates it is a twin. I was wondering how it grew - there doesn't seem to be a point of attachment, though one end and a side seems to have a reentrant angle and a seam respectively - I think that shows in the photo where I am holding it. Just thought it is neat.
Cheers
Elise |
It IS neat! This is the cleavage rhomb {10.1} (though a crystal form, not a cleavage) twinned on (00.1). How else can you get a di-trigonal pyramid in calcite?!!
I also have one from Rossie, New York, and a number of smaller ones from Long Lake. They appear to have grown attached by one of the edges of the triangle, which allows them to break off very easily while leaving minimal evidence of the attachment.
On mine, if I am interpreting them correctly, the only difference between the original faces of the twin and the cleavage surface where it broke away from the matrix is a higher luster and perhaps a more irregular surface on the breakage plane.
It would be wonderful to have some drawings of these crystals in place.
Moving the topic a bit, I understand that the wonderful "axe head" {10.1} twins from Egremont, Cumbria, England were developed within a field of small delicate prismatic untwinned crystals, with the pointed bases of the twins down, and one could go along and pop them off like picking cherries or lollipops. Perhaps this is crystallographic fantasy, but if true, I just wish I had been there!
_________________ Collecting and studying crystals with interesting habits, twinning, and epitaxy |
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Elise
Joined: 22 Dec 2009
Posts: 243
Location: New York State
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Posted: May 29, 2013 10:34 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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Hi Pete!
I took some more photos this morning to show the side that I thought might be the attachment and reentrant angle. It was at the top of the first image along with right-hand side. The specimen is nearly symmetrical. Is this something you can diagram with software? It would be neat to see a photo of the crystals on matrix, but I think I can imagine what you are describing. "Neat" is becoming a technical term.
Cheers,
Elise
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Calcite Twin Rossie, New York, USA 50 x 50 x 35 mm Old specimen, badly abraded. |
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34200 Time(s) |
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Description: |
Calcite Twin Rossie, New York, USA 50 x 50 x 35 mm Old specimen, badly abraded. |
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34207 Time(s) |
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_________________ Elise Skalwold |
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Elise
Joined: 22 Dec 2009
Posts: 243
Location: New York State
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Ru Smith
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 362
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Posted: May 29, 2013 21:16 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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Pete Richards wrote: | ...Moving the topic a bit, I understand that the wonderful "axe head" {10.1} twins from Egremont, Cumbria, England were developed within a field of small delicate prismatic untwinned crystals, with the pointed bases of the twins down, and one could go along and pop them off like picking cherries or lollipops. Perhaps this is crystallographic fantasy, but if true, I just wish I had been there! |
Do you remember where you read that, Pete? Do you have a copy of the original text?
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Pete Richards
Site Admin
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 828
Location: Northeast Ohio
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Posted: May 30, 2013 08:01 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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Ru Smith wrote: | Pete Richards wrote: | ...Moving the topic a bit, I understand that the wonderful "axe head" {10.1} twins from Egremont, Cumbria, England were developed within a field of small delicate prismatic untwinned crystals, with the pointed bases of the twins down, and one could go along and pop them off like picking cherries or lollipops. Perhaps this is crystallographic fantasy, but if true, I just wish I had been there! |
Do you remember where you read that, Pete? Do you have a copy of the original text? |
Well, it is perhaps a case of partly having read it and partly my inference. In the ExtraLapis English edition on calcite, issue #4 (2003), in an article on Cumbrian calcite twins, Mick Cooper writes about calcites from West Cumbria and the Furness District, "In some cases these minerals were so loosely attached to the matrix that the miners could pluck the crystals from crystal-lined nests with their bare hands." And elsewhere, "...the chunkier heart twin ... is generally found alone with barely a mark to show where it had been attached to the matrix". This is true of my three examples, and it certainly would have been easy to snap them off. All three have small prismatic crystals at the base, apparently engulfed as the twins grew, though I cannot document having read this anywhere.
Note the problem with giving descriptive names to twins - I apparently used the wrong name. Cooper also mentions "axe head" twins, but in his usage these are thinner and more delicate.
_________________ Collecting and studying crystals with interesting habits, twinning, and epitaxy |
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Pete Richards
Site Admin
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
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Posted: May 30, 2013 08:46 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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Elise wrote: | Hi Pete!
...Is this something you can diagram with software?...
Cheers,
Elise |
Below is a diagram of the crystal you showed. Top row is looking at the crystals from the side in standard crystallographic orientation, bottom row is looking at them down the c axis. The sequence shows first the difference between twinned and untwinned crystals and then the minor distortions of ideal geometric twinned shape that produce a crystal much like yours. To use a technical term, neat!
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34052 Time(s) |
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Elise
Joined: 22 Dec 2009
Posts: 243
Location: New York State
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Posted: May 31, 2013 09:25 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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Hi Pete,
I wasn't able to find anything like this in a text, so I am very excited to see this diagrammatic explanation - thank you!
Is this a rare type of twinning or is this an unusual manifestation of a common type of twinning?
The lower drawing on the right side showing only one notch apparently matches this specimen. I assume the "seam" along the edge is a reentrant angle. Originally, I thought it was only along the edge shown above, but there seems to be a less obvious one along the adjacent edge terminating at the same battered point/notch.
The other edge shows a very slight line of luster difference (the bottom edge in the first image above), but I would be hard-pressed to capture it in a photograph. Perhaps that is cleavage from breaking off attachment to matrix.
There are no notes with the specimen other than a minimal label. I thought that the patina might indicate that it had been kicking around the dept for decades or even a century, but morning coffee debate team wasn't convinced. I think it would be nice to display with a diagram and photos to show the different views as it does not look as impressive just sitting on a shelf ....although when I pulled it out of a storage drawer it made my day (along with the ice cream cone above)! It will be a very nice addition to the museum.
Cheers,
Elise
Pete Richards wrote: | Below is a diagram of the crystal you showed. Top row is looking at the crystals from the side in standard crystallographic orientation, bottom row is looking at them down the c axis. The sequence shows first the difference between twinned and untwinned crystals and then the minor distortions of ideal geometric twinned shape that produce a crystal much like yours. To use a technical term, neat! |
_________________ Elise Skalwold |
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Ru Smith
Joined: 13 Oct 2012
Posts: 362
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Posted: May 31, 2013 15:33 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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In https://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?p=31768#31768 Pete Richards wrote: | Well, it is perhaps a case of partly having read it and partly my inference. In the ExtraLapis English edition on calcite, issue #4 (2003), in an article on Cumbrian calcite twins, Mick Cooper writes about calcites from West Cumbria and the Furness District, "In some cases these minerals were so loosely attached to the matrix that the miners could pluck the crystals from crystal-lined nests with their bare hands." And elsewhere, "...the chunkier heart twin ... is generally found alone with barely a mark to show where it had been attached to the matrix". This is true of my three examples, and it certainly would have been easy to snap them off. All three have small prismatic crystals at the base, apparently engulfed as the twins grew, though I cannot document having read this anywhere. |
Many thanks Pete, I'd not read that. It is a wonderful image - a garden of calcite twins ready to be plucked.
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GneissWare
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1287
Location: California
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Posted: Jul 18, 2013 09:17 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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A few more Calcites to ponder...
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Calcite Flambeau Mine, near Ladysmith, Rusk County, Wisconsin, USA 81 x 69 x 43 mm
From the East End Footwall Orebody, Marker 418.0 1010 Level
"Wheat sheave" shaped white Calcites to 32 x 16 mm, with pearly luster and light-red Hematite accents are perched on sparkly contrasting matrix of Calcite. Although there is some damage, this is a very rare and important specimen-one of only three Calcites found at the Flambeau Mine in Wisconsin, and the very best one found. It was collected by Casey Jones who sold it to F. John Barlow (#5972), and was later consigned to Casey upon dissolution of the Barlow collection. |
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Calcite Flambeau Mine, near Ladysmith, Rusk County, Wisconsin, USA 81 x 69 x 43 mm
Another view.
I don't know the correct name for this habit, hence the "wheat sheave" reference. |
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Calcite Hercules Mine, Municipio de Camargo, Coahuila, Mexico 191 x 87 x 65 mm
This cluster of Calcite crystals consists of both elongated scalenahedrons and butterfly twins (to 44 mm) with a reddish tinge from Hematite inclusions that deepens in color towards the centers of the Calcite crystals forming nice Hematite phantoms. The Calcites also display distinct chatoyancy. Although it presents damage around the margins where it was removed, it is one of the only surviving specimens from what was reportedly a large, several meters long cave completely covered by such Calcite. It was given to me by Francisco Aguilera who worked at the Hercules Mine and actually collected it. Casey Jones and I met Francisco through the mine office because he spoke some English. |
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Calcite Hercules Mine, Municipio de Camargo, Coahuila, Mexico 191 x 87 x 65 mm
Close up of the twins |
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Calcite Fuzichong Mine, Cenxi Co., Wuzhou Prefecture, Guangxi Zhuang A.R., China 99 x 85 x 44 mm
A very aesthetic poker-chip Calcite crystal, measuring 47 x 36 x 26 mm, showing a clear core and sharply-defined white caps is perched on contrasting matrix richly covered on both sides by gemmy, flattened Calcites to 8 mm. These Calcite crystals appear pseudo hexagonal, but are actually flattened rhombohedrons stacked on top of one another. This beautiful specimen shows nice color and contrast. A very aesthetic and unique specimen with no damage. |
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Pete Richards
Site Admin
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
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Posted: Jul 18, 2013 09:55 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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Re the curved calcites from Flambeau, I tend to call them "potato chip habit"....
Re the twins from Mexico, they appear to be twins on {02-21} (relative to the morphological cell), which is probably the rarest of the four twin types of calcite. Neat specimen!
_________________ Collecting and studying crystals with interesting habits, twinning, and epitaxy |
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GneissWare
Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 1287
Location: California
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Posted: Jul 18, 2013 10:14 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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Pete Richards wrote: | Re the curved calcites from Flambeau, I tend to call them "potato chip habit"....
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I hadn't thought of that as a description, but like it! Essentially these are also stackd flattened rhombohedrons, but offset and twisted? I wonder why.
Pete Richards wrote: | Re the twins from Mexico, they appear to be twins on {02-21} (relative to the morphological cell), which is probably the rarest of the four twin types of calcite. Neat specimen! |
I looked up this twin and that seems correct. Thanks for the info!
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Pete Richards
Site Admin
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Location: Northeast Ohio
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Posted: Jul 18, 2013 12:50 Post subject: Re: Calcite Forms - (4) |
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GneissWare wrote: | Pete Richards wrote: | Re the curved calcites from Flambeau, I tend to call them "potato chip habit"....
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I hadn't thought of that as a description, but like it! Essentially these are also stackd flattened rhombohedrons, but offset and twisted? I wonder why.
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I've never seen an explanation, but of course this is the same thing dolomite often does. Cleavages demonstrate that the lattice itself is twisted. It's tempting to think of an impurity that is a little too large or too small causing the strain, but that's just a guess. The distortion is quite systematic - the pointed outer part of each rhombohedral face is bent down (or in the case of the bottom faces, up).
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