We use cookies to show content based on your preferences. If you continue to browse you accept their use and installation. More information. >

FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board
The place to share your mineralogical experiences


Spanish message board






Newest topics and users posts
31 Oct-12:39:30 Re: collection of michael shaw (Michael Shaw)
31 Oct-05:34:05 Re: munich show (mineralientage) 2024 (James Catmur)
30 Oct-14:07:27 Re: introduction with some pictures (Philippe Durand)
30 Oct-11:47:09 Re: contribution dr. Menor-salván - bertrandite from portuguese pegmatites - (51) (Fmf Forum)
30 Oct-11:46:20 Contribution dr. Menor-salván - bertrandite from portuguese pegmatites - (51) (Fmf Forum)
30 Oct-09:41:36 Re: munich show (mineralientage) 2024 (James Catmur)
30 Oct-09:36:03 Re: introduction with some pictures (James Catmur)
30 Oct-08:50:48 Re: introduction with some pictures (Michael Shaw)
30 Oct-05:58:51 Introduction with some pictures (Pegmatiteappreciator)
29 Oct-23:45:34 My 44th visit to the mineralientage in munich since 1977 (Roger Warin)
29 Oct-09:20:39 Collection of carles millan: fluorite from erongo (Carles Millan)
29 Oct-03:57:49 Re: is this a gold ore??? (Vdhinesh79)
29 Oct-00:04:37 Re: collection of volkmar stingl (Volkmar Stingl)
28 Oct-12:12:31 Re: is this a gold ore??? (Vdhinesh79)
28 Oct-12:10:40 Re: is this a gold ore??? (Jordi Fabre)
28 Oct-12:07:43 Re: is this a gold ore??? (Matt_zukowski)
28 Oct-11:55:16 Re: is this a gold ore??? (Lluis)
28 Oct-10:22:03 Re: is this a gold ore??? (Vdhinesh79)
28 Oct-06:27:20 Re: is this a gold ore??? (James Catmur)
28 Oct-06:01:21 Re: is this a gold ore??? (Vdhinesh79)
28 Oct-04:28:43 Re: the mim museum in beirut, lebanon (Mim Museum)
28 Oct-03:29:52 Re: is this a gold ore??? (Vdhinesh79)
28 Oct-02:35:31 Re: is this a gold ore??? (Alfredo)
27 Oct-17:09:16 What might this be? (Todd Willis)
27 Oct-16:38:02 Re: sphalerite from kulmberg austria (Jordi Fabre)

For lists of newest topics and postings click here


RSS RSS

View unanswered posts

Why and how to register

Index Index
 FAQFAQ RegisterRegister  Log inLog in
 {Forgotten your password?}Forgotten your password?  

Like
115978


The time now is Oct 31, 2024 18:48

Search for a textSearch for a text   

A general guide for using the Forum with some rules and tips
The information provided within this Forum about localities is only given to allow reference to them. Any visit to any of the localities requires you to obtain full permission and relevant information prior to your visit. FMF is strictly against any illicit activities related to collecting minerals.
Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan
  
  Index -> Minerals and Mineralogy
Like


View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message

Antonio Alcaide
Site Admin



Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 314
Location: Spain


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 09, 2012 03:02    Post subject: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

Could you help me with these flattened titanites?. They come from Gandab Valley (Gandahab), Mohmand Agency, Pakistan. I have seen and bought them in the market but only from one dealer from Pakistan. He is a serious and reliable seller.

But, a few days ago, a friend pointed out these crystals could have been cut. I have not seen them on Mindat where the locality is not recorded.

I post several pictures. The crystals are completely included with chlorite. Instead of the usual wedge shape of the titanite, these are flat and slim. My opinion is that we have here an odd habit of titanite, but natural habit.

Regards



PICT0469.JPG
 Description:
Titanite
Gandab Valley (Gandahab), Mohmand Agency, Pakistan
5 x 3 x 0,5 cm.
 Viewed:  24974 Time(s)

PICT0469.JPG



PICT0470.JPG
 Description:
Titanite
Gandab Valley (Gandahab), Mohmand Agency, Pakistan
5 x 3 x 0,5 cm.
 Viewed:  25068 Time(s)

PICT0470.JPG



PICT0471.JPG
 Description:
Titanite
Gandab Valley (Gandahab), Mohmand Agency, Pakistan
5 x 3 x 0,5 cm.
 Viewed:  24973 Time(s)

PICT0471.JPG



PICT0472.JPG
 Description:
Titanite
Gandab Valley (Gandahab), Mohmand Agency, Pakistan
5 x 3 x 0,5 cm.
 Viewed:  24982 Time(s)

PICT0472.JPG



_________________
Life is the shortest crystal
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

John S. White
Site Admin



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1297
Location: Stewartstown, Pennsylvania, USA


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 09, 2012 05:25    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

They are perfectly natural. I have a similar one that is alleged to be from Gilgit, Skardu, that I acquired in 2002.
_________________
John S. White
aka Rondinaire
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Antonio Alcaide
Site Admin



Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 314
Location: Spain


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 09, 2012 05:47    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

Thank you very much, John, for your quick answer. It is a pity these uncommon crystals are not recorded on Mindat and elsewhere as far as I know. I checked all the Pakistani titanites from Mindat and I did not see any of them.

Regards

_________________
Life is the shortest crystal
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Maggie Wilson




Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 15
Location: Ontario

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 09, 2012 06:41    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

Hello, folks

We acquired one of these crystals - actually, it's next on my list of items to photograph and upload to Mindat.

The locality is Shalman Area, Kyber Agency, FATA, Pakitsan.

Under the scope, crystal inclusions and offsets are clearly visible poking up from the surface of the crystal. Conclusion: natural, not cut.

All the best
Maggie
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Carles Curto




Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Barcelona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 09, 2012 07:24    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

Flattened crystals of titanite are not specially unusual. Goldschmidt figures some drawings and between them, figs. 20 (St. Gottard), 45 (Binnental), 152 (Llach), 230 (Zillertal), 234 (Zlatoust), 854 (Isčre) and 326 (Rauris,) are very good examples.

I add some pictures of flattened crystals of titanite (from different localities), their respective thicknesses are not so clear on the pictures, but they are really thin.



titanita_1969_25br.jpg
 Description:
Titanite
Kötschatal, Badagstein, Austria
2,7x2,4x1,2 cm / 1,4x0,7x0,4 (main crystal)
 Viewed:  24913 Time(s)

titanita_1969_25br.jpg



titanita_2006_11br.jpg
 Description:
Titanite
Ladjuar Medam (Lajur Madan), Badakshan, Kokcha Valley, Jurm, Afganistan.
5,7x3,5x4,5 cm. / 1,8x1,1x0,3 cm.
 Viewed:  24892 Time(s)

titanita_2006_11br.jpg



titanita_1989_21br.jpg
 Description:
Titanite
Haramosh, Shengus, Gilgit, Gilgit-Baltistan, Pakistan
5,1x4,2x3,1 cm. / 1,8x0,8x0,3 cm. (main crystal)
 Viewed:  24875 Time(s)

titanita_1989_21br.jpg


Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

John S. White
Site Admin



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1297
Location: Stewartstown, Pennsylvania, USA


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 09, 2012 08:42    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

Carles, yours appear to be twinned, in addition to being transparent. Those that Antonio refers to are not twinned and they are not transparent, AND they are usually heavily chlorite-included. Also they are complete floaters, no attachments, no matrix.
_________________
John S. White
aka Rondinaire
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Jesse Fisher




Joined: 18 Mar 2009
Posts: 631
Location: San Francisco


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 09, 2012 09:59    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

The last photo that Antonio posted looks to me like it may be a twin. Perhaps need to see a higher resolution or close-up photo to say for sure whether what looks like re-entrant faces at the apex of the crystal are really faces of just a break.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Antonio Alcaide
Site Admin



Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 314
Location: Spain


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 09, 2012 12:41    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

I am very pleased because of your comments.

Maggie, I make a note of the locality you provide. I will check if two localities are close. Your adding of a picture of these titanites to Mindat is a good idea.

I agree with John about the unusual features of these titanites. They are floaters indeed. I must see though the Goldschmidt drawings Carles quoted.

Jesse, looking at the crystal with magnifying glasses I do not see any break. I think the smaller faces could be re-entrant faces but the chlorite and my lackness of knowledge on twins -I mean experience- do not allow me to be categorical. Anyway, I am posting the close-up you asked. I hope it helps.

Regards



titanita.JPG
 Description:
Close-up of the apex of the crystal
 Viewed:  24754 Time(s)

titanita.JPG



_________________
Life is the shortest crystal
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

John S. White
Site Admin



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1297
Location: Stewartstown, Pennsylvania, USA


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 09, 2012 16:08    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

Here is a photo of my titanite. As mentioned it is a complete floater, it is untwinned, there are no re-entrants anywhere around the edges of the crystal, and it is 4.5 cm across. The locality is given as Gilgit, Skardu, Pakistan.


P1000591.JPG
 Description:
 Viewed:  24687 Time(s)

P1000591.JPG



_________________
John S. White
aka Rondinaire
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Tobi
Site Admin



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 4181
Location: Germany


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 09, 2012 16:39    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

Carles Curto wrote:
Kötschatal, Badagstein, Austria

Carles, just some little corrections for the spelling of that locality, it is:
Kötschachtal, Bad Gastein.
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Antonio Alcaide
Site Admin



Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 314
Location: Spain


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 09, 2012 17:13    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

Another smaller crystal, without attachment point, completely flawless.

Regards



titanita.jpg
 Description:
Titanite
Gandab Valley, Mohmand Agency, Pakistan
2 x 1 cm.
 Viewed:  24649 Time(s)

titanita.jpg



_________________
Life is the shortest crystal
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Carles Curto




Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Barcelona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 12, 2012 02:24    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

Hi, John.

The Antonio pieces looks also twinned (an aspect not clearly observable on the pictures). The fourth one is clearly twinned and the second and the third show a fine line (with a slight change of shadows) that suggests they are also twinned (the position of the first one make impossible to see anything). Ans yes, they have chlorite inclusions.

The pictures I hanged show a not chloritized crystals, but the basic morphology I can observe, with all the objections that the photography imposes, is very sharp and similar (especially in Kötschatal and Haramosh pieces).

The Antonio pieces looks also twinned (an aspect not clearly observable on the pictures). The fourth one is clearly twinned and the second and the third show a fine line (with a slight change of shadows) that suggests they are also twinned (the position of the first one make impossible to see anything). And yes, they have chlorite inclusions.

The pictures I hanged show a not chloritized crystals, but the basic morphology I can observe, with all the objections that the photography imposes, is very sharp and similar (especially in Kötschatal and Haramosh pieces).

Probably, the most remarkable aspect of the Antonio’s samples is the high degree of thickness and their extreme simplicity of principal forms (interesting).
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

John S. White
Site Admin



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1297
Location: Stewartstown, Pennsylvania, USA


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 12, 2012 10:05    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

I am afraid that I must disagree with Carles. Of course I have not seen these crystals, only the photos Antonio posted, but I can see no twins in the first three and I doubt there is one in the fourth. I also trust Antonio that he can examine the crystals and determine if there are twins there or not. His crystals appear to be virtually identical to mine and there is no twin on mine.
_________________
John S. White
aka Rondinaire
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Antonio Alcaide
Site Admin



Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 314
Location: Spain


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 12, 2012 12:12    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

I must apologize for my previous ambiguity. I said "crystals" when I had to say: "crystal". The first four pictures belong to the same titanite in different positions. So I have posted only two crystal, one measuring 5 cm across and the second, smaller enough. Sorry.

As John's titanite is untwinned and both crystals are very similar so it is reasonable to think mine is untwinned too. But, despite of the kindness John's statement about my ability, twins are often beyond my comprehension. I would need a practical tutorial because I usually read about crystallography but it is not enough when handling with twinned crystals.

If it is not twinned, Jesse is right. It could simply display a break at one side.

I am so impressed by this kind of titanites for its extremely even shape. I agree with Carles about it.

Regards

_________________
Life is the shortest crystal
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

John S. White
Site Admin



Joined: 04 Sep 2006
Posts: 1297
Location: Stewartstown, Pennsylvania, USA


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 14, 2012 04:38    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

Antonio: Since you appear to feel that you are unable to recognize a typical titanite twin, I am attaching a photo of such a twin. It is very distinctive. It appears as a V-shaped cut and will always occur along and parallel to the narrow edge of a crystal such as yours, if there is indeed a twin on your specimen. I do not see one in your photos.


P1000592.JPG
 Description:
 Viewed:  24330 Time(s)

P1000592.JPG



_________________
John S. White
aka Rondinaire
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Carles Curto




Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Barcelona


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 14, 2012 07:00    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

John S. White wrote:
I am afraid that I must disagree with Carles. Of course I have not seen these crystals, only the photos Antonio posted, but I can see no twins in the first three and I doubt there is one in the fourth. I also trust Antonio that he can examine the crystals and determine if there are twins there or not. His crystals appear to be virtually identical to mine and there is no twin on mine.


Hi John, really I cannot discuss your affirmation on a picture, Probably you are right. My comment is only a personal suggestion induced by the disposition of the thin lateral faces (face?), that seems to show a slight geometrical change of aspect (right ant left, on the photography).
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Antonio Alcaide
Site Admin



Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 314
Location: Spain


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: Mar 14, 2012 17:45    Post subject: Re: Flattened titanite from Gandab Valley, Pakistan  

Well, I know the typical twin of a titanite, like the example you have posted, John. Obviously there is no V-shaped twin like this on my crystal. Just I thought -as Jesse or Carles pointed- there could be some slightest signs of another kind of twin.

If the V-shaped is the unique twin known for titanite, my crystal is untwinned.

Regards

_________________
Life is the shortest crystal
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   
Display posts from previous:   
   Index -> Minerals and Mineralogy   All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1
    

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


All pictures, text, design © Forum FMF 2006-2024


Powered by FMF