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Louis Friend
Joined: 26 Jan 2012
Posts: 89
Location: Adelaide
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Posted: May 07, 2012 21:51 Post subject: Collecting material and our environment |
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Honesty and integrity in all our dealings are points that frequently arise as a teacher. I often find students doing things that could get them into a lot of trouble. They might mean well but a wrongdoing is a wrongdoing and there is no middle ground or areas of grey!
The comments I now make are general and not directed at anyone in particular.
The hobby of mineral collecting does not attract good ink in the press if some members of our fraternity do things, which may be wrong. Collecting material from areas deemed off limits to collecting will give the broader community the impression that as collectors we have no objections to “raping and pillaging” our environment, and this makes legitimate field collecting difficult for the rest of us. It also makes the hobby of mineral collecting look bad.
I have many dealings with the local mining community and I have established many contacts, mainly Mine Managers. One of their main objections to collecting is the act of profiteering, and by this, I mean obtaining material on the “cheap” from naïve miners or “mothballed” mines to sell at a substantial profit to other members of the mineral collecting fraternity. If caught people face severe criminal and civil prosecution, and such headlines only make the mineral collecting hobby look bad. I know in many third world countries such as Peru, Bolivia and elsewhere some miners supplement their income by stealing from their employers. However as most mines are now run by western operators such activities are being dealt with through the criminal courts, and many companies I know would like the courts to deal with all members in the chain, from miner to collector.
If you know of any activity that may be suspicious, I strongly recommend that you contact your local or federal law enforcement. The bottom line is this, you would not like someone coming into your home and making off with your collection. A wrongdoing is a wrongdoing. _________________ "The aim of science is to make difficult things understandable in a simpler way; the aim of poetry is to state simple things in an incomprehensible way. The two are incompatible." Dirac |
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vic rzonca
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 820
Location: MA
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Posted: May 08, 2012 06:55 Post subject: Re: The exact location of the Holyoke Trapps? |
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Unfriendly ground = very steep to overhanging and only accessible with mountaineering techniques. Any arrangement I have with property owners is my affair and have worked to developed them for years. As far as rape and plunder go, Google Earth and view a large quarry operation and get back to me. Rape and plunder indeed. I know the commercial quarry sites in my area are closed to the casual collector, liability issues. But I have been given mine tours and access to these locations by mine managers themselves, even driven to the blast pile. The inference that a random good find is somehow suspect leaves me uncomfortable. I guess in this age of corporate personhood there is room only for large scale growth, no cred given to the little guy's effort. When I was on the sharp end of the rope, I didn't see anyone else there, and I share this small bit of natural history for your edification and enjoyment, not for your innuendo, I find no joy in that. I think I'm going to give up this mineral collecting if I'm viewed as in it for profit. What happened to adventure! |
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Jordi Fabre
Overall coordinator of the Forum
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 4929
Location: Barcelona
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nurbo
Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 457
Location: Lancashire
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Posted: May 09, 2012 14:59 Post subject: Re: Collecting material and our environment |
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I wholly agree with Vic too, but I thought the innuendo here was that poverty stricken miners and their families in third world countries should turn over the specimens they harvest for OUR benefit to the multi billion pound international mining companies so they can build roads with them, thus surrendering the feeble amount of extra money they make on top of the wages that we in the richer world would find laughable. I take it louis that you never ran a red light or parked in a no parking zone or any one of a thousand other things that fall into the grey areas of rules? |
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alfredo
Site Admin
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 986
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Posted: May 09, 2012 15:15 Post subject: Re: Collecting material and our environment |
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There is a very large overlap between "legality" and "morality", but not everything that is legal is moral, and not everything that is illegal is immoral.
A poor miner who supplements his income by saving a specimen from the crushers, and who sells it to a collector or dealer for $50, rather than let the mining corporation crush it for its $0.50 worth of copper, that poor miner has technically committed theft, a crime. But I have no problem with that, and I praise him for his "crime". The specimen is worth far more to the cause of science and art than it is as electrical wire or water pipe.
I'm reminded also of the laws prohibiting fossil exports ("national paleontological treasures") from most South American countries. If a cement company crushes thousands of fossils a day to make cement powder, that is perfectly "legal". But if I rescue one of those fossils from the crushers and export it to a museum abroad, I have committed two "crimes": theft from the cement company and violation of the export laws regarding "national patrimony". I proudly state that I have no problem at all with people who commit such "illegal acts"! |
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Tom H
Joined: 09 May 2012
Posts: 1
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Posted: May 09, 2012 15:18 Post subject: Re: Collecting material and our environment |
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Mr. Rzonca,
I have been a lurker here and on Mindat for quite a while, but am posting now as I wanted to offer my sincere gratitude for posting your pictures and your story, and my encouragement to continue! It would be a pity for someone with the skill to extract such beauties (while dangling from a rope, no less!) to give up. "Louis Friend" (aka Samuel Fairfield) has a history of inflammatory posts, and of bannings and aliases on multiple message boards, so please do not take those comments to heart! I look forward to reading more of your wonderful finds as they progress!
And Samuel, how do you think all the Huang Gang specimens on your collection page made it from the mine (run by a Chinese corporation) to your collection? Miners snuck them out somewhere along the line, so as the saying goes, why throw stones?
Tom |
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Jordi Fabre
Overall coordinator of the Forum
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 4929
Location: Barcelona
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Posted: May 10, 2012 02:33 Post subject: Re: Collecting material and our environment |
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Tom H wrote: | ..."Louis Friend" (aka Samuel Fairfield) has a history of inflammatory posts... |
Hi Tom, welcome here!
Yes, Louis Friend, Samuel, Sam...he has multiple personalities and time to time, he like discuss inflammatory topics as well as write offensive, "viral", posts (and PM!)
I watched for him when he started again in FMF with his new personality "Louis Friend" and I warned some members of FMF about him, but as he published reasonable topics and posts like the thread from his collection: Louis Collection I let him proceed.
Unfortunately his personality seems don't have the ability to maintain discussions with other people without to be too inflammatory or too agressive, so as FMF is a common space which needs a lot of respect for the others, I banned again Sam-Louis Friend and I deleted all posts from him (and other people) related with this too flamboyant controversy. Sorry for the posts deleted from other FMFers but I can't leave just some...
As I usually do I copied these posts and I saved them, so if some one want to see them I can send to him a copy privately.
Sorry also to do it so late but some times I need to sleep and when the controversy entered into ignition I was on the bed... ;-)
I'm not too much optimistic about Sam, as although in the past I tried to block him in many different ways, is very easy for him to find new email/ IP adresses, so he can re-start in the future with a new name. Anyway, after all these bad experiences with him, as soon as he will do it I will try to catch him and block him again. I suffered him too much times in the past and now I don't want to repete again the experience.
Thank you everybody for your patience and comprehension. |
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John Medici
Joined: 02 Mar 2011
Posts: 124
Location: Ohio
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Posted: May 10, 2012 23:00 Post subject: Re: Collecting material and our environment |
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No problem, Jordi. It is often best to ignore individuals who stray somewhat from reality. Jordi Fabre wrote: | Tom H wrote: | ..."Louis Friend" (aka Samuel Fairfield) has a history of inflammatory posts... |
Hi Tom, welcome here!
Yes, Louis Friend, Samuel, Sam...he has multiple personalities and time to time, he like discuss inflammatory topics as well as write offensive, "viral", posts (and PM!)
I watched for him when he started again in FMF with his new personality "Louis Friend" and I warned some members of FMF about him, but as he published reasonable topics and posts like the thread from his collection: Louis Collection I let him proceed.
Unfortunately his personality seems don't have the ability to maintain discussions with other people without to be too inflammatory or too agressive, so as FMF is a common space which needs a lot of respect for the others, I banned again Sam-Louis Friend and I deleted all posts from him (and other people) related with this too flamboyant controversy. Sorry for the posts deleted from other FMFers but I can't leave just some...
As I usually do I copied these posts and I saved them, so if some one want to see them I can send to him a copy privately.
Sorry also to do it so late but some times I need to sleep and when the controversy entered into ignition I was on the bed... ;-)
I'm not too much optimistic about Sam, as although in the past I tried to block him in many different ways, is very easy for him to find new email/ IP adresses, so he can re-start in the future with a new name. Anyway, after all these bad experiences with him, as soon as he will do it I will try to catch him and block him again. I suffered him too much times in the past and now I don't want to repete again the experience.
Thank you everybody for your patience and comprehension. |
_________________ field collector |
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