FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[Tracy]

Thanks Jordi for your very informative response! ( https://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?p=2028#2028 )

A follow-up question: are there other mineral species from Chinese localities which are superior in quality to the old "classics" and are now considered to be "new classics" - as in, the most desirable? It would be highly beneficial to me and to other newer collectors if we knew which among the many minerals coming out of China were the "best of the best," and why. (in other words, we would love to learn more from you!)

- Tracy

[Jordi Fabre]

Wow, what a question!. This can't be answered by a post or a column, but by a book...

I will try to built just a short list of the Chinese species that accomplish your request. If you have more doubts about some of them, please ask about it (them) and I will try to answer.

As a list, and did for a single person (I) it will be more subjective than objective, so if the brilliant personalities of this forum disagree with some (or all;-) of them, or they want to add more mineral species, please write here about it. I would be happy if with the help of other people, this short list start an other, more complete and detailed.

Here is my list:

- Helvite with Spessartine from Tongbei, Fujiao: https://www.fabreminerals.com/specimens/RSCN-china-notable-specimens.php#MB53F1

- Cinnabar from Chatian, Hunan: https://www.fabreminerals.com/specimens/RSCN-china-notable-specimens.php#TF89H3
or from Yanwuping Mine, Ghizhou: https://www.fabreminerals.com/specimens/RSCN-china-notable-specimens.php#ZA73G7

- Doyleite & Gibbsite from Baoshan, Yunnan: https://www.fabreminerals.com/specimens/RSCN-china-notable-specimens.php#MG64I1

- Scheelite from Shaobaodin Mountains, Sichuan: https://www.fabreminerals.com/specimens/RSCN-china-notable-specimens.php#EY38G7

- Kësterite from Shaobaodin Mountains, Sichuan: https://www.fabreminerals.com/specimens/RSCN-china-notable-specimens.php#EK88E6

- Babingtonite from Qiaojia, Yunnan: https://www.fabreminerals.com/specimens/SHQ-sold-fine-minerals.php#MK94G5

- Kermesite from Caiwa Mine, Shaanxi: https://www.fabreminerals.com/specimens/RSCN-china-notable-specimens.php#BB42

- Realgar from Shimen, Hunan.

[Carles Curto]

Obviously, some of the new mineral samples from China will be (in fact a lot of them they are just now) considered as classics. Both new species discovered in the country and a lot of superb samples of very well known minerals (Stibnite, Scheelite, Bournonite, Cinnabar, Pyromorphite...) are exceptional but, for me, is not easy to compare them with another items known.
Are the exceptional Chinese Pyromorphite better than Bunker Hill, Les Farges or Horcajo exceptional ones? Really I would have almost one very good sample of every one of those localities.
Are Chinese Cinnabars better that Almaden's ones? I believe they are very different and a good collection must contain both.
Value judgment can be useful if we compare two (or few more) similar samples, but a collection (a mineral collection indeed) is important due to its global amount, the quality of every one of the pieces, of course, but also for the representation of classic and modern localities (and modern localities will be classic tomorrow), and the quality of the documentation.
Are better the Elbaites from Pakistan, Madagascar or Brazil that the Pala ones?
What do you prefer Aquamarine, from Brazil or from Pakistan?
Rhodochrosite, from Hotazel or from Colorado?
Etc.
Etc.
Etc...
Corollary: collect Chinese samples now, while it is possible. Tomorrow them could be rarities.

[Tracy]

At last, I have time to revisit my own topic!

My initial question was interpreted out of context, and I wish to recount a story that might phrase it better. Several years ago I came across a list (I forget on which site) titled "100 must-have specimens for any collection" which I found helpful as a reference when acquiring specimens. A few years and some extra knowledge later, I realize that the list was misleading, because (as has been stated by Carles and others) there really is no such thing as "the best of the best" when it comes to minerals. Perhaps the idea of publishing sucj a list was inherently flawed, because great minerals from China don't diminish the importance/value of ones from other classic localities.

When I posed the original question it was not so much "which Chinese minerals are best of the best," but rather "if I were to look at the list today, how many of the original 100 "must-haves" would now be replaced by the newly discovered Chinese minerals?" For instance, would Chinese cinnabars replace ones from Almaden on that list, and Chinese pyromorphites replace ones from Les Farges? I was hoping to be able to complete the following sentence: "Top-quality ___________ and __________ (minerals) rivalling the best from __________ and _________ (countries) have been found in China." This was the intention behind my questions about cinnabars and "best of the best."

If anyone can think of a way to complete the sentence above, I'd be very interested in hearing others' thoughts....and if so I would ask a secondary question: why do you think that Chinese _______ are better? (e.g., superior size, shape, color, luster, clarity etc) - as Jordi provided with his explanation about cinnabars, additional input would be appreciated - thanks.

- Tracy

[Les Presmyk]

An interesting question and I will take a stab at adding to Jordi's list. I am not as knowledgeable in the localities as Jordi but the specimens I describe should be known to all. Maybe someone can help fill in the locales. The other comment is absolutely true. Today's "common" specimen is tomorrow's classic. However, some minerals and the deposits they come from are rare throughout the world so when the mineral is produced, even though it is on the market, one needs to look at the historical perspective. For example, how many truly great mimetite or bournonite localities are there as opposed to quartz, calcite and fluorite localities?

Mimetite - orange crystals, maybe not the world's finest but who can afford one, if even available, from Tsumeb?

Pyromorphite - the best are equal to Les Farges but not to Idaho

Azurite - if you cannot afford one from Bisbee, the Chinese locality will certainly do.

Cinnabar - these are the world's finest.

Sphalerite - the red crystals are truly good, maybe not as large as those from Spain but these are available

I guess someone has to defend black minerals so here goes.

Bournonite - has everone forgotten the crystal in Mark Weill's collection or the one in John Barlow's collection? Fine specimens are available.

Wolframite

Cassitierite on mica

Stibnite - Japan's may be considered the best but the ones coming from China have pushed that envelope and if I was collecting world-wide, I would rather have one from China.

[Pete Modreski]

Just looking at these past posts and to add my own comment, yes, I certainly have been struck by the remarkable number of minerals for which Chinese specimens equal or surpass, or just "mimic", classic things from around the world. I am impressed by the variety of Chinese fluorites; it seems like almost any color & habit of fluorite that one knows well and recognizes from elsewhere in the world, can be duplicated by a locality in China (well, almost, anyway).

And viewing Jordi's past pictures posted on this thread, that certainly is a magnificent-looking Shaobaodin Mountains scheelite.

And... my, sometimes it seems that the advance of mineral collecting and the finding of good specimens of new species just leaves one in the dust. When I looked at Jordi's picture of
Kësterite covered by Mushistonite
it was, "good heavens, what in the WORLD are either of those... someone could tell me they were 'anything', and I'd have to believe them!". I had to get out my Glossary of Minerals to get some idea what we were dealing with here... OK, a crystal cluster of a stannite-group sulfide, coated by a Cu-Sn hydroxide, I can live with that. Live and learn.

Cheers,
Pete
(and P.S., to Jordi and others, thanks for the reports from Munich. I enjoyed seeing the pictures of Marie & Terry Huizing visiting you... they are really fine people (I saw that one of the pictures you posted of them was taken back in Denver---my own USGS booth sign was visible in the background).

[John S. White]

Can't quibble over any of the minerals mentioned thus far but I have yet to see fluorite and calcite mentioned. The diversity of habit and volume and size of the Chinese fluorites is mind-blowing and I cannot think of any other locality to match it. Many of the Chinese calcites are fantastic, do not forget the butterfly twins that capitvated everyone some years ago. I don't think that Les extolled the cassiterites enough, they have to be the world's finest. There are great quartzes, very different and interesting vesuvianites, redwulfenites, zircons, the list goes on. I agree with Carles, get em now, they will not last forever.