FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[daviddillman]

My goal is to acquire a collection of small-cabinet and larger specimens. I have only purchased two significant items so far. My preference is for a few impressive and interesting specimens rather than a large variety. I have had a fascination with minerals and natural science when I was young but the distractions of education, work, and family put and end to this.
My question is not what to buy but how. What venues are best for assembling such a collection in a cost efficient but low risk manner? I have considered the following methods and would like any feedback on my admittedly naïve thoughts on this question.
1. Shows in my area ( Texas)

Plus: The main advantages seem to be the ability to see the minerals in person.
Negatives: Few opportunities during the year.

2. Dealers at their galleries
There is at least one high-end dealer who has been in business for a long time in my area.
Plus: The main advantages seem to be the ability to see the minerals in person. I am not sure what room there would be for price negotiation. Risks of fakes seems lower. Discussions with the dealer could be very educational.
Negative: I might fall into the common mental trap of buying something every time I go to make the trip “worthwhile”. Risk of overpaying seems high.

3. Dealers Websites
I would limit this to dealers that have been in business on the Internet for years. I have checked in the Mineralogical Record and Rocks & Minerals magazines to determine who has been around for a long time.
Plus: Avoiding travel. Year round format for buying.
Negative: Cannot see the specimen in person, no format for price negotiation.

4. Internet auctions (Not Ebay but sites dedicated to mineral acutions)
Plus: Besides avoiding travel and year round format for buying.
Negative: I have always been very skeptical of any type of auction. There is always the tendency of the competitive nature of the auction to result in irrational prices. Another downside is the possibility of sham bidders. Cannot see the specimen in person, risks of fakes seem higher.

5. A large show: Tucson Gem and Mineral Show or Quartzite AZ
Plus: The large selection and presence of many dealers at the same place seems to be a big advantage. Get to enjoy the show and meet some interesting people even if I do not buy much. This could be very educational if done correctly. Opportunity for price negotiation.
Negative: I have never been to these shows and they sound a little overwhelming. Time and expense spent traveling seems like the main downside.

[Jason]

I wouldn't downplay ebay. I used to sell excellent thousand dollar++ specimens on there. Price was much lower than many dealers on there own websites and much much lower than any gem show(if identical specimens were sold at each).. More times than you would think i sold a specimen/crystal that I could have sworn would climb climb climb but ended up losing $1000 in one fail swoop from my purchase price. Thats $1000 of my own money gone..just like that. Gotta take the risk to get the reward though. Some people sells on ebay and has many high-end specimens..or at least they used to up on ebay. Many many times I would see them do a .99ct starting bid on a multi-thousand dollar specimens and many times saw them go for much less. The sad fact is ebay is full of scoundrels but it does have it's shining stars(for ebay). You just have to nail them down..which in my case took me about a year. I have bought and sold online, on ebay, and at gem shows many times and ebay always wins out price wise. The "dealer in your area" has some of the most fantastic specimens there are..hands down but his prices reflect his notoriety and long standing reputation in the fine specimen world. Very high retail price with a much higher margin than most other dealers.

The best way to acquire high end specimens and low cost with minmakl risk(if you actually know what you are doing) is to travel to the locations these stones are found and/or the closest gem centers where they are distributed from. A prime example is namibian brandberg quartz, erongo aquamarines, Jeremejevite, etc. One example of a brandberg was a crystal a friend of mine bought in namibia..he sold it to a highend dealer, I am sure most on here know, for $3000. The dealer knows his stuff, prices, market and has sold many a brandberg before and he snatched this thing up so quickly..within seconds of seeing it. I wonder what his markupo was on it to sell at the gem shiws he does? $300? $500 $1000+ My friend bought it for $300. In namibia a few years ack when this happened $300 was alot for almost all brandbergs The aquas from erongo.. Aquamarines..$500 will get you a 5 gallon bucket full of awesome crystals. Thats like 50 pounds of aquamarine fully formed gemmy crystals. I sold many single crystals of namib aqua and I can tell you if you don't make $5000 on that bucket you did something wrong. The jeremehevite..when skip simmons was in erongo at the aqua pockets the miners would just throw out jeremejevite crystals. he said and showed me pics of small piles of them just tossed aside. Even Demantoid garnets..when Robert Whitmore(Mt. Palermo owner, new hampshire) was there with his wife a few years back they picked up gem grade demantoids off the ground all day long. when i was in maine in May he showed me a bunch of 2+ct cut demantoids he had faceted and all from just picking them up off the ground. They were not junk gemstones at all. Fine quaklity..didn't have a top green or anything but were still excellent..especially sincee he just walked around and picked.

Tell me all of thoise don't cover the $7000 price tag to go there and thats all expenses. Thats how the folks in the know do it, from dealers to collectors. (unless you have an endless supply of money) You don't even want to know how much a 70-80ct clean peridot facet rough cost in the closest village to the mine in pakistan compared to what the gem will sell for at WHOLESALE

[Jason]

Wanted to also add about ebay. You have to know what to look for when buying from there You pretty much need to have bought or had pass through your hands similar types of minerals so you can tell what the dealer is actually selling is worth it. Not a probklem on most dealer personal sites as they take the time to describe and photo the stones properly. I got so good at finding the "diamonds in the rough" so to speak. All the time I would find that specimen that was fantastic..a real good one that the seller on ebay had described poorly or taken bad pictures of Having had so many speimens and crystals pass through my hands I could tell that whatever type was being sold was a good one since I had seen and held so many of them. Would make bank buying one dealers specimen and turning right back around the same day it got to my house and posting it for sale back on ebay with great pics and an enthuastic description. Two that really standout were 2 red beryl buys from ebay. I sold a decent amount of it on there as well as the only other dealer on ebay that sold halfway decent specs, matt mabus. Well I saw this one crystal that I knew was decent but wouldn't go high. Snagged it for $2..sold it that next week on ebay for $170. Not a lot of money in general but the profit margin is astronomical. The other one was also a red beryl. Was a buy it now..sat up for awhile on ebay. Seller didn't post a weight as he didn't have a scale and was selling it for someone else. Had length/width but no weight. Most of us on here can tell by measurments how big it is..don't need a scale of reference. The thing about red beryl is it's sold by the weight more or looked at more by weight. First thing folks look for when looking at red beryl is weight. I was able to determine these measurments meant a massive crystal. Bought it for $200..got it here..49cts which is a huge crystal. Maybe 25 or 20 larger or even less than that ever found. Was fukll hex and double term. Had the strawberries and creme look, which is noit the best, but bthe size more than made up for it. The next week sold it back on ebay with weight included for somewhere between $600-650..don't remember exactly.

Just wanted to show that ebay is not all bad. It gets a bad rap from gem and mineral folks but the deals are to be had just gotta know what to look for

P.S. One of the worlds best gemstones seller sells on ebay..sells 80% of his inventory on there

[GneissWare]

David,
You pose an interesting question. As you are just starting, but have stated you are willing to spend considerable sums of money on acquisitions, you may find numerous people willing to help you part with your money. The only defense is to research thoroughly before purchasing, unless you know a dealer you can really trust. This is the same with buying anything really.

You have obviously done some research into venues. You may want to consider visiting some shows and museums, to see what you like, and then go back and do some research on the internet for pricing. Not all dealers advertise in the magazines, so your assumption about reputation /longevity and advertising is not necessarily correlative.

Also, try to establish a focus early in your collection. You have decided on a certain size criteria and some general sense of types of specimens. You may want to restrict to a certain country or gem crystals or sulphides....whatever has interested you during your initial research. And, you will find your tastes may change over time.

I strongly recommend visiting shows, and meet with other collectors who can provide some mentoring. There are also mineral groups in most cities where you can find fellow collectors. There is the MAD group in Dallas and HAM? group in Houston. Gail, who is on this forum, is a member of one or both. You might consider sending her a PM from this forum. She is very helpful and a very knowledgeable collector.

As to price negotiations, you can do this in person at a show, or on the internet via email. The worst that happens is some dealers will not negotiate, but many will. And, as you get to know people, you will find they may be able to help you get better deals.

Hope that helps some.

Bob

[Jason]

Great point, gneiss..one which I forgot to leave out. negotiate..negotiate..negotiate..if a dealer or seller won't negotiate with me I walk on buy. I have only ever bought a couple things at full price..very rare for me. Only place you will find folks who won't negotiate is America..not sure about Europe but Africa, Asia, and South America there is no such thing as a set price.

[Jesse Fisher]

Personally, I think the single most important thing that any collector can do is attend as many major shows (Tucson, Denver, Springfield, Munich, Ste. Marie) as humanly possible. You will meet many dealers and collectors in a very short time. You will be able to see what is available on the market and see the price and quality range for yourself, without having to take someone else's word that a particular specimen is "a bargain" of "the best I have ever seen." It will cost you time and money but it is by far the quickest route to a good education on how the mineral market works. The first time I went to Tucson I was completely overwhelmed, but it is now an annual pilgrimage, and well worth the cost. If I make a few good buys as a result of being there, then I've likely saved the cost in not having overpaid for something as a result of not having a chance to "shop around."

This is not to say that I do not buy minerals on the internet as well. The advantage of going to a few major shows is that you can actually meet most of these dealers and get to know them, and they can get to know your wants and wished as a customer. Buying minerals over the internet is easier of you know ant trust who you are dealing with.

[chris]

Hello David,

First welcome to the forum. Like you I prefer to have a few specimens in my collection and put more money into each one of them.

I do agree with the previous comments, here are my own "thoughts" :
- Master patience. As you want to collect few specimens, you'll have to chose a thematic quickly. No matter which one it might be (based on locality, chemistry, color, ...) you'll probably soon discover that it can take quite some time to assemble such a collection (this is my own experience). Try to avoid buying a specimen not matching your thematic as I did once because you weren't able to find something. Sooner or later you'll regret it.
- Attend as much larger shows as possible. Even if it might been seen as time consuming, money wasting, as Jesse explained it will be a good investment. You'll meet dealers in person, put a face behind a website, get differents opinions about novelties. If you can, attend your first shows with "old timers". Not only they'll usher you to those dealers, but they will give you advices about specimens you want to buy (too expensive, bargain, yes but...). This is what I did when I came back to mineral collecting. It definitely helps to have a trusty person warning you that a dealer's so called bargain won't be one for you. if you decide to do systematics from a certain locality, it is sometimes interesting to market as farer as possible from this locality. The number of collectors interested in such locality will be much lower, increasing your opportunities to both find the one you look for, often for cheaper.
- Research over the internet (Mindat is great place to start), buy books, ask questions on this forum for instance.
- Both Jason & Bob gave a very good advice : negotiate. If a dealer still has a specimen you like (but was too expansive for you) after several large shows, it probably means that it really is too expansive. Make an offer especially if you have the amount in cash (it really helps sometimes).

Enjoy !

Christophe

[Jordi Fabre]

Recommended Reading:

Very little mineralogy in mineral collecting today -> https://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?t=12

Specimen Criteria -> https://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?t=250

What defines a mineral's 'quality?' -> https://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?t=162

[Jordi Fabre]

David, Jason, this Forum always tried don't use too much commercial terms as it want to be a non commercial, but scientific Forum.

Your posts are fine and I encourage everybody answer you, but I deleted in your posts some price and some dealer name just to maintain the regular style of the Forum.

Thanks in advance for your understanding.

Jordi

[John S. White]

I would like to say that I would not advise a novice collector to travel to a source area in order to buy specimens (such as Erongo, Namibia). In my view the odds of finding a really great specimen this way are really slim. It is one thing for experienced dealers to do this as they are apt to buy a large lot of material, with a few pieces being exceptional, but a collector is less apt to find anything worthwhile. Dealers are also more experienced at bargaining. If they are making a large purchase then they are in a better position to negotiate the price for the lot. At the same time, having made the trip, the novice collector is more likely to buy at least something, even if it isn't of the hoped-for quality, just to return home with something.

David is fortunate in being so close to a large number of serious collectors. The best thing he can do is visit as many of these collectors as possible and listen carefully to what they have to say. And, as Jesse wrote, try to get to as many mineral shows as possible so that you can compare prices and see a large selection of good material which you can personally examine before considering a purchase.

[Jason]

Sorry john I would respectfully disagree with you. A novice collector will get much better deals and specimens whether it be Teofilo Otoni, Namak Mandi, or Windhoek. Eeven if you don't know how to bargain the price bought there will be lower than the same specimen bought in the states at a gem show or from a dealer. Sure you may not bargain good or not at all and the price you pay will be very high and it will be high for that place(nrazil, pakistan, namibia, thailand, etc. etc.) but still will be less than what you would pay here in america. The poster said he would pay up to an amount like $3000-$5000. A decent amount of money. Doesn't make much sense to pay $3000 for a specimen that was originally bought for $300. Why not take a trip, go on a safari, and have the adventure and vacation of a lifetime and by your $3000 or $5000 specimens while you are there for $300 or 500 or 700. I used to think I was getting great deals ordering direct online from dealers in gem/min centers all over the world. Narrowing down the best from that area. Not even close, all the folks from Peshawar, Teofilo Otoni, andWindhoek especially, are all the more higher end dealers in that area who have the means and time for it, they have computers, etc. Especially in namibia..you visit the erongo mtns. and you take not cash but 4 things, bread, water, matches, and cigarettes and climb the hill the miners will give you better specimens than you could have bought for money and you can collect all the jeremejevite crystals they throw off to the side that they don't want(lots of them)..how much do those things cost you? Pennies.

The title is HOW TO BUY. Thats how to buy! Sure if money is no object then doesn't matter how you buy. If money is a concern and you are real serious about collecting why pay an extra $3000 on something that the person who bought it paid $500 or $300, or 700 for? It's the little secret that dealers don't want you to know. If you are a dealer you finally realize after a while that the best way for you to buy and make the most money is to trip to these places to get the best deals anbd prices. 5 years ago only maybe 2 dealers ever went to namibia to buy ...now I know well over 15 that do it every year. Why? OIt is the best way for them to buy and make money. Prices are cheaper and it pays for itself many times over even though you slapped down 7K just to get there. All the custom cutters I deal with here in the states, just about all trip to tanzania 2-3 times a year for rough. That is how they make their living by selling custom cut gemstones. Thats $5000 a trip just to get there times 2 or 3 times..$10,000-$15,000 just for the travel and not the buying of the rough. Yet, they are still able to make a living at it even though they spend huge sums of money just to get there.
Why? Because it pays for itself many times over due to the much mich lower price paid in Arusha vs. Texas, Tuscon, or New York. It's the best way to buy!

A certain texas dealer we all know..well I tracked down, by chance, one of the dealers in Pesahwar who sold him a specimen that was up in the(don't want to say the specific name) "special" section with the top top specimens he has $10,000-$100,000++ ones. The price paid for the specimen the dealer in Pakistan charged him and the price he had listed were ten thousand dollars apart..yep..TEN THOUSAND dollars difference. (specimen must have had it's own private jet from karachi to america:):):):) Nothing wrong with that as they/he has the clientele to do that with money being no issue but it's not the best way to buy.

If you are a serious collector and not just a weekend warrior who goes to his local gem show once a tear then none of this applies to you but if you are very serious and want the best and the cheapest then thats the way to do it.

I agree John that he is near many good and bigtime collectors and well known dealers. Anyone who is a serious dealer knows the little secret about texas buyers..they are flush with money and there is a a good amount of them. Texas has a disproportional amount of big money collectors. We discussed this last year at Cartersville. If you can take advantage of what John said and get to know or make friends with one of those good texas collectors you will learn alot and get to see some eye candy

[GneissWare]

Jason.
John's comment seemed to me to be related to experience. It is easy to get cheated at the source areas if you don't know what you are buying. How many folks going to Thailand for a great deal on cut ruby have come back with spinel?

I have friends who go to various parts of the world buying specimens, and because they buy so much material and frequently, come back with specimens most people traveling overseas would never see.

The common theme of most of the comments is education, and meeting and aligning oneself with like-minded people.
Bob

[Ed Huskinson]

Hi David, and welcome to the forum. Yes, iit is wise to travel to shows to add specimens to your collection. The advantage to being there in person rather than buying over the 'net is the ability to hold the specimen that interests you, being able to manipulate it, see how it looks from various angles to optimize the viewing angle, all of those things. And yes, being able to negotiate the final price. The advantage of being able to bond in person with a particular piece is incalculable. Sometimes you see and then hold a piece and just know that it will fit into your collection perfectly. Often, when I purchase a specimen, I know exactly where the piece will fit. The upper corner of such and such a shelf, that sort of thing. Then you know, and there is no buyer's remorse whatsoever.

I encourage you to pursue your dream and maintain your vision. We all look forward to being able to share your pursuit and watch your collection grow.

All best wishes,

Ed in Kingman

[Peter]

David

Most welcome to this forum and mineral colelcting!
I am happy that you after years of interest get to this point having found your way here and seriously planning how to learn and get specimens. I would suggest to use all your mentioned ways and many more. As to specimens get what you like! What minerals are interesting, beautiful for you and your current knowledge. We all learn from studying the specimens. Use the time at museums, mineral shows, seeing peoples collections, dealers inventories to see a great variety, study, ask questions, learn.

Your taste will change with knowledge. Do get impressions and ideas from as many knowledgable colelctors as possible. There is always a tint of any collector, dealer, club whci does not cover the whole spectrum of interest in mineral specimens. Personally I have been a collector for 44 years, 40 years of them more intensive and during the past 35 years I have annended ineral shows, visited mines, met colelctors, seen museums and private collections, giving lectures on most continents (not yet Antarctica) and I have subscribed to 38 journals and read soem hundred books on the subject (geology, geochemistry, mineralogy, gemology etc) After my initial 20 years of collecting I started to realize just how little I knew! and for many years I gave courses two evenings a week in this field.

The best mineral magazines is a great start. Look at dealers websites, their internet inventory. See museum collections, shows.

Each person has their own abilities to see clearly of what is presented and after reading some descriptions you will see what is fact and what is sellers talk. Sometimes I see publicity for "one of the best" of something discovered perhaps before the dealers was around and never saw or know what was really in that find of 1200 fabulous specimens and one of the lesser 500 is offered as one of the best. Probably it is not intended as misleading but honestly what that dealer knows. That said most dealers who have been around some 20¨years have enough experience to know what they are selling. There are also young new dealers who have been colelctors for many years and bu their activity have reached a quite high level of awareness, but we are all limited as persons and anyone believing to know it all, has really no distance to his/her own limitations. I know this view is European, but somehow we tend to learn by long intensive experience.

Listen to different people. All have their favourite areas of interest, you will develop your own depending on your knowledge, experience and personlaity. A mineral collection certainly reflect the personality of the colelctor-s themselves.

The best people will always be happy to help you out as a new colelctor without any bach thoughts and some will see dollar signs as soon as they meet you. Your choice. Who you want to interact with.

The other day I was at a car dealer looking at new cars for myself and my wife. I know this car very well, its models, engineering etc. The company has one guy I will buy from. He is in the service department and is nbot a seller but with 10 years of servicing me and my car I knew him and his honesty. He will get the share for selling me. Now, a sleezy looking young guy walked up to me in a nice suite that did not fit him at all. He saw me as an immediate target as I was there during lunch hour and was dressed in office clothes.I would never in my life buy neither a lollipop, a car ,a house or mineral specimen from him. I am sorry, but I am honest. Had I been dressed differently he would most likely not have rushed out of his office.
Now, this is rarely the case at mineral shows but you have to use your own mind who you want to listen to, select what is important for you, who is who and what is really what.

I would recommend you to look and learn during a year at least and buy some smaller things not heavy for your economy. You should certainly visit Tucson a couple of times before even thinking of spending big bucks on minerals. Better to be better informed and to know what you relaly like. You can get a whole lot of interesting minerals from old colelctions some dealers are selling but also nice things from new finds. Select your price range what you can really afford without breaking your budget. Buy litterature and read. If not get only mineral magazines.

Participate as much as you can in forums like this and mindat.org to learn a spectrum in the field and get contacts with great people. Good luck and have fun in this great hobby!

Since I was a child I always bought what I fancied most at every show. Most of my life I self collected which gives you a much deeper understanding for minerals, and you quickly realize that a 20 dollar specimen is not all that easy to find yourself and you get to appreciate the rarity of what you see at shows, the quality. One very nice quartz specimen is the effort of years of digging thousands of specimens! Many times sold for a lot less than it really should be worth!

[lluis]

Good evening

To travel or not to travel is just a question of what we want to buy, if we go there to buy, or just buying is a side aspect of travel.

A dealer should travel. A collector, well, depend on chances of what he expects to buy.

Jordi knows me. I hate the "mass baths", so, I generally I only assist to expominer. At first hour (is the only day in the year that I am missing for all except for minerals)
The experience at Narbonne was that the trip was very nice (Cathars route), but in minerals was a failure.
Recently I was in Japan. Unable to find a decent netsuke, not to say an interesting katana.
I found both in eBay (not cheap tourist items, I mean)
I enjoyed the travel a lot, but I was unable to buy nothing there (well, some ceramic...)

I made my calculations of when a trip to Tucson would be worth for buying minerals.
I should expend a nice amount to compensate the time, and the expenses of travel.
So, if not to vist some friends, I am not pretty interested

If you have a dealer in which you are confident, he could get better deals at the end...
My opinion. Not more.
But I align with Mr. Sampson-White, I suppose

With best wishes

Lluís
P.D.: I buy in all ways you could imagine. Accept that I never bargain, but still, I am very happy with what I got. Some dealers treat me in a very generous way, indeed!
I miss Mr. Galimberto a lot. A gentleman! May the earth be light to him!

[daviddillman]

Thanks to everyone for your responses.

Jason your comment about Texas have a disproportionate number of buyers flush with cash is interesting. I did not know mineral collecting was especially popular in this area.
I am beginning to suspect that higher end dealers in TX are probably I very high cost way of shopping. First the TX economy has been much stronger than the rest of the USA for some time. Second conspicuous consumption is something of a hobby in TX. I realize it is a stereotype but I think it is quite valid.

Jordi: Thanks for providing this forum; I have been reading the links you mentioned.

I found the topic "Tucson 2008, questionable prices?" very interesting. I sounds like there a plenty of dealers who apply astronomical mark ups to some specimens and just hope a novice (like myself) will buy it without realizing something similar can be found somewhere else. I have noticed attempt to create what I would call a "fashion show" or "art museum" type of atmosphere with some dealers. I imagine this should make me wary of pricing.

Thanks again everyone.

[John S. White]

The biggest flaw in Jason's argument about travelling to source areas to get good buys is that there is no guarantee that the buyer will find anything when he gets there. At these source areas fine specimens don't just sit around waiting for a buyer to show up. One often hears of dealers coming back empty from a buying trip because there was nothing being mined at the time or they just got beaten to the good stuff by another dealer who showed up the day before.

Yes, one can recite anecdotal examples of good buys being made by collectors at source areas, but these are relatively rare occurrences, in my experience. Add to that the old axiom that specimens are the most expensive closest to their source. This is not exactly what Jason is talking about but, for example, the very worst place to hope to get a good deal on an azurite from Bisbee would be in Bisbee.

[Jesse Fisher]

The best minerals almost always change hands in private and out of public view. Traveling to an area such as Minas Gerais or Peshawar the unconnected collector may be able to come away with some "souvenir" quality specimens, but you are highly unlikely to encounter anything really good on the open market. These sort of specimens will invariably be reserved for dealers or perhaps wealthy or obsessive collectors who have developed personal connections with the producers. While traveling to mineral-producing locations is highly educational, and just plain fun for those inclined to travel in the first place, unless you have the time and money to cultivate a relationship with the producers, it is perhaps best to seek out the dealers who already have. A dealer will usually purchase a volume of material from a mine-owner in order to get access to the best specimens. Unless you, as a collector, are willing to deal with selling on hundreds of wholesale quality specimens you might not want for your own collection, it is easier to go to the dealer who is, and get to know him or her. You will, of course, pay premium price for the premium specimens, but this is how business works.

The best (and perhaps only) way to really become successful at putting together a top quality collection to to go to shows, meet people in the hobby/business, learn what you personally like and want to collect, and get a good feeling for what the market values for these specimens are. The relationships you build with dealers, suppliers, and other collectors you meet will be invaluable if you stick with mineral collecting for any length of time.

As someone new to mineral collecting, I would add a note of caution. If it becomes known that you have a fair amount of money to spend, and are new and inexperienced at understanding the relative value of mineral specimens, there are no shortage of dealers who will gladly offer you seemingly desirable specimens at rather highly inflated prices. Getting an education has it's costs, no matter where you go to school, and I suspect that all of us have, on occasion, paid way to much for specimens we have acquired for our collections. The only way to defend yourself against this is by getting that education. Expect to make mistakes, but be prepared to learn from them.

[John S. White]

Jason made the following statement in one of his postings, and it didn't sound at all reasonable to me:

"The jeremehevite (sic)..when skip simmons was in erongo at the aqua pockets the miners would just throw out jeremejevite crystals. he said and showed me pics of small piles of them just tossed aside. "

So I checked with Skip Simmons and this is what he had to say about the jeremejevite:

"Amazing how things get modified in the translation. When we were at the mines in the Erongos in 2003, we did in fact collect VERY SMALL FRAGMENTS of jeremejevite crystals in the debris around the pockets where some of the nice jeremejevite crystals were originally found. There was a lot of pocket debris scattered about the larger pockets and careful searching produced numerous fragments of jeremejevite. These were of interest to us as we had never collected jeremejevite and we thought it was pretty cool to find. But these pieces were really too small to have much (any?) commercial value and that is why the material wasn’t carted off. I have given several talks about that and subsequent trips and described finding this jeremejevite. I also showed crystals that we bought from the miners and someone may have thought that those were material that we found in the debris. There also may be confusion with my description of collecting schorl crystals in the pocket debris. I described collecting very nice schorl crystals in the debris around a number of different pockets. Most anywhere else these crystals would have definitely been collected by the miners and not abandoned. For whatever reasons there was a lot of schorl and some good crystals. I suspect that the two stories may have gotten muddled in someone’s recollection.

So the miners were definitely not throwing away jeremejevite crystals."

I think it is important that such misrepresentations be identified and corrected.

[daviddillman]

John,

Thanks for researching this story. It did sound too good to be true.