FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[Taya]

Dear Colleagues!
Does anyone knows how antibacterial ("healing") clays work?
It is well known that natural clays have been used in medicine from ancient times. What makes some clays antibacterial and what are the "healing" mechanisms?

Thank you

[Tracy]

Hi Taya -

Unfortunately you've posted on the wrong Forum - FMF has a focus on minerals and mineral specimens, not on medicine. I don't think you'll get the answer you're looking for here. However, a quick Google search led me to some links with the latest research findings on your topic, so you might want to try that route.

Good luck.

- Tracy

[lluis]

Hi, Tracy, Taya, List

Well, Tracy, I am curious as the cat that was killed by his curiosity.... :-)

Seems that there are data about clays that cure and others that promote bacterial growth (second, beside, is what I would swear that would be the case...)
Some had a so curious "name" as CsAgO2, that is a double oxide of silver and cesium.

Done that cesium has no effect in bacteria, as far as I know, and done also that silver is a strong antibacterial, I suppose that healing is due to silver.
Greeks (the rich ones, I mean), used to place a silver coin in their cisternae to ensure that water was not contaminated.
Today are used some silver salts for antibacteriological effects. Some as exotic as a double zirconium and silver silicate (no, not a natural existing mineral; or at least, as far as I now, not approved by IMA :-) )

But all on all, I think that "healing clays" are a missnomer.
Would be better "healing impurities" in some clays.

No magics, sorry. Just some cations that have some strong interference with some low organisms...

With best wishes

Lluís

P.D.: just curiosity, Taya is a name? Or a pseudonim?

[Tracy]

Hi Lluis -

Can't have any dead cats around. :-) New research from March 2011: the antibacterial effect seems to be caused by iron in the clay getting into bacteria and generating lots of lethal hydroxyl radicals. But again, this is really outside the scope of FMF, is it not?

- Tracy

[lluis]

Hi, Tracy

Yes, I read that abstract, but trouble is that iron is not toxic to bacteria (well, if you impaled one in a micro nedled, yes....Like humans, that have a pronounced alergy to iron, specially in form of swords and more specially when they cut their heads.... :-); like the case of Black Prince, that died due to this allergy (wounds...) :-)

And yes, completely out of the scope of this forum, unless the bosses' opinions are diferent.

Just the chemist jumping out of my skin.
Another time crowling to the hole.... :-)

With best wishes

Lluís

[Taya]

Dear Tracy,
I am sorry for the wrong post!
It would be right to close this discussion, I guess.

However, I supposed that antibacterial properties of clay minerals could be interesting as chemical properties of clay minerals.

Dear Lluís,

I am appreciate your kind curiosity, thank you for the answer.
I agree with the definition "healing impurities", It seems that this article confirms it:
"What Makes a Natural Clay Antibacterial. By Lynda B. Williams at all, Environ. Sci. Technol. 2011, 45, 3768–3773."
https://wwwbrr.cr.usgs.gov/projects/EC_bacteria/Journal%20articles/Public%20health%20Microbiology/Williams-etal_2011_ES&T_Antibacterial-clays_es1040688.pdf
(link normalized by FMF)

Taya is a shorter version of a quite popular in the World Classic literature Egypt's name
"Taisiya" or "Tais", and I use it in all official documents.

Best Wishes

[lluis]

Good evening, Taya, List

Well, being chemist, and curious, your post interested me.
And being clays minerals, and being many chemists mineral collectors, well, not a so odd thread.... Or maybe I am a little bit biased? :-) (rethorical question, I am biased, sorry; I like chemistry.... :-) ; not as basic as maths, but very basic with few concepts to grasp)

I know the name Thais, but I have never heard that egyptian version is Taya or Taisiya.
Maybe it comes from Ptolemies? (you know, your curious cat...) Thais is a greek name, so, it makes sense to me...
A lot of thanks for making me a little more wiser!

With best wishes

Lluís

P.D.: Lluís is the catalan form for english Louis or Lewis, although in my case, would be the catalan form for Aloysius.

P.D.D.: my name is Lluís Gonzaga, being Gonzaga the italian prince that made the Jesuits rich. In contrast from Lluís, king of France. Besides, I studied with Jesuits.... :-)
Not minerals, but as little bit chat.... :-)

[mmauthner]

I don't know Tracy. Minerals participate in every cycle in the universe. I think some of those stories are quite interesting and what I often contemplate when I am viewing/playing with my collection.
One of my favourites is the possible link between clays and the origins of life....
Thanks for the link. I'll have to chase that one up.

Mark

[Jordi Fabre]

Hi everybody,

Considering the fact that is true that discussing about antibacterial properties of clay minerals we also discuss about the chemical properties of the clays, I have not problems to let the thread runs.

Thanks Tracy for your help, it is true that at his start the topic seemed clearly out of the scope of this forum, but considering the direction that this thread has currently I believe is acceptable.

Thank you Taya for your kind explanations as well as to publish your avatar. We love to know well new members! ;-)

[Tracy]

Taya, welcome to the Forum and I'm sorry if I sounded harsh. Was having a bad morning...I too agree that the current direction of the thread is interesting. It seemed to me a strange topic to launch in a minerals forum, but I'm happily convinced otherwise! :-)

- Tracy

[Taya]

Tracy, I agree that my first post might be look like a post of a healer - quack at the first blush :)
It should be more detailed. Thank you for understanding.
I am happy to know that this topic has aroused an interest of the Audience. Honestly, clay minerals and particularly "healing" species of them do not directly relate to my topic, actually, although we use natural clays as raw materials. My research deals with artificial alcaline silicates (composite materials based on water glasses) and alkaline-aluminosilicates (so-called geopolimers) for industrial use.
I just try to get a comprehensive view of this problem (antibacterial properties of natural clays) for myself, that's why I asked this question here, that's it.

Thanks to all for the answers, I will appreciate for any information related to this topic