FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[Riccardo Modanesi]

Hi to everybody, and in particular a big big greeting to our German friends!
Just yesterday evening, in another mineral forum I am enrolled to, I read something I didn't like at all, considering we are all in the big European Union. According to what I understood, the German parliament is approving a new law which would forbid everybody to pick up "cultural goods" including minerals and to have a private collection of several items, minerals are including in the "black list". Moreover, this new law would be retroactive, i.e. if you already have a collection, for example of minerals, you would be submitted to law punishments. I hope I misunderstood, because this would be a big big alarm for all of the collectors not only in Germany, but in the whole European Union! We all know the step is very short for a law from being approved by a national parliament (and the German one is one of the most powerful ones in the Union), up to being approved by the European parliament! I repeat: I hope I misunderstood at least partially what was told there.
Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.

[John Betts]

Former German chancellor Helmut Kohl is a mineral collector.

[kushmeja]

It's my understanding that the legislation in aimed primarily at artwork, and even then only culturally significant works of art. I've read several write-ups regarding the proposed laws a few months back when they started discussing them, because I'm a part time art collector/dealer, and I saw no mention of anything aside from artwork being restricted. Even then, the legislation has specific guidelines with respect to the value and age of the art.

I don't see how they could make a law like this applicable to mineral specimens, unless they were historically significant specimens and/or of very high value, and even then I don't believe that it be likely to happen. It's also worth noting that there was a tremendous backlash from the art community when they started discussing this legislation back in July or August, so it's not very likely to pass in its current form, if at all.

[Peter Seroka]

The most undemocratic and most senseless law, threatening private collectors and scientists as well.

The German government plans to pass a so called cultural goods protection bill in the beginning of 2016. A draft has been published on September 14th 2015 and menaces collecting of natural goods (such as fossils and minerals etc.) and cultural goods (including artifacts, coins, stamps, artworks etc.).

Private collectors as well as scientists, merchants and organisers of fairs would be adversely affected by this regulatory overreach. No one representing the natural sciences has been consulted during the draft phase of this pending law. By aggregating completely different resources (cultural goods and natural goods) within one act, many inappropriate and misguided regulations have found their way into the paragraphs.

Central to this proposed legislation, misinformed officials ludicrously attempt to justify the need for drastic regulations by argument of illicit digging and resulting illegal trade of artifacts ultimately being used for terrorist financing. This purported use of natural and cultural goods defies both logic and historical precedent in Germany.


Collectors, scientists and merchants are threatened by

- senseless import formalities which are impossible to observe for every single natural or cultural good (legislation currently makes no provision for waiving scrutiny of objects below a specified threshold value),

- the fact that non-compliance of the formalities would lead directly to classification of the possession of natural and cultural goods as being illegal, making it possible to criminalise collectors by more or less arbitrary acts by the authorities,

- proposed duties of care for dealers which are difficult or impossible to obtain,

- highly questionable retroactive law and reversal of evidence in account of the collector. (lack of "grandfather clause"),

- hindrance of natural science by excessive bureaucracy and deprivation of sources for new material (collectors, merchants and own imports),

- a virtual ban of international exchange and commerce of cultural and natural goods (e.g. fossil and mineral fairs) due to far to overwhelming and unnecessarily prohibitive bureaucratic requirements that have nearly the same effect as embargoes.

Collecting is not destruction of cultural and natural goods; it is quite the contrary: collecting is important to preserve natural and cultural goods for future generations! Scientists and collectors cooperate excellently in natural sciences ("citizen science").


We claim a fundamental revision of the law with inclusion of natural scientists, private collectors and merchants of natural objects to have input in proposing rules that make sense! The collectors of cultural goods need also to be heard, maybe leading to separate considerations for their pursuit.


Natural goods are world heritage and not the cultural heritage of a national state. Limitations for the merchandise traffic, for lending objects from institute to institute resulting from growing bureaucracy are not necessary for every single object; however, they may only be justifiable for certain objects above a meaningful and justifiable threshold value.

Posted by Peter Seroka (German citizen) on Oct., 27, 2015

[Riccardo Modanesi]

Hi to everybody!
Just a few minutes ago I got an even bloodier new about: the German MInister of Cultures rejected the petition many collectors signed in Munich and in all of the mineralogical expositions all over Germany! I think now it's time for our German friends to write an e-mail directly to the German Republic's President! It's unacceptable in the European Union in 2016 (not in 1816!!!) to have such a senseless law!
Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.

[Edelmin]

I think there is no problem to include below the letter I have also received explaining the facts. It is time for all us, even if we are not German citizens, to write to the president of the German Bundestag to ask him to take into consideratin our petition. I have just writen.

Best regards,

Felix Garcia


[English version]

Cultural Affairs Committee refuses to receive petition “For preserving the right to privately collect”, signed by 44.500 supporters

44.500 citizens have signed the petition “For preserving the right to privately collect”. With their signature, they demand the new proposed law to not contain unrealizable requirements for each private collector. Based on flimsy reasons, the Cultural Committee has refused an official handover of the signatures.

23.2 million Germans collect. That’s more than a third of the population. They collect coins (7.7 million), stamps (6.2 million), watches (4.8 million), minerals and fossils (4.1 million), antiquities (3.6 million) and much more. Each and everyone of these collectors will be affected by the new law on the protection of cultural property.

44.500 citizens have signed the petition “For preserving the right to privately collect”. They are representing these millions of German collectors who are not yet aware that the new law will affect collecting.

For good reasons, the platform chosen for this petition was not the petition platform of the German Bundestag, but the neutral platform “openpetition”, because it ensures, that personal data of signers will not be passed on to third parties.

The refusal of the Cultural Affairs Committe to receive the petition “For preserving the right to privately collect” – first referring to a shortage of time, then explaining that “the campaign at www(.)openpetition(.)de” cannot replace “a real process of petitioning” was a rude surprise to us. We still believe hat – even beyond an official petition – citizens who made their opinion public by signing have deserved attention.

If you are sharing our view, we would ask you to write an email to the president of the German Bundestag at norbert(.)lammert(@)bundestag(.)de. Especially the views of signers from abroad are important as Ms. Grütters claims that the foreign countries expect Germany to change its laws. If you do not want to frame the letter yourself, you can use our suggestion.

Yours sincerely
Ursula Kampmann

Regarding: 44,500 collectors were not heard.

Dear Mr. Bundestagspräsident,

Collectors all over the world are watching alertly the discussion about the amendment of the new cultural property law in Germany. Unfortunately the interests of the international collectors who have close connections to the German market have barely been debated. Therefore I have signed the petition “For preserving the right of privately collect” hoping to prompt the responsible politicians to include our interests into their thoughts. Much to my regret I had to learn that the Cultural Affairs Committee refused to accept our signatures officially as written in its letter PA 22/L/01-0000-01-334 dated to April 8, 2016.
For that reason, I request you to ensure that the claims, we have phrased in our petition, will find its way into the discussion of the Bundestag about the amendment of the cultural property law:
• No retroactive effect of the law
• No reversal of the burden of proof
• A clear definition of the term “national cultural heritage”
• A limit to claims by the state to “national cultural heritage” only
• Free circulation of cultural goods within the EU without bureaucratic obstacles
• An appropriate participation by the parties representing collectors and dealers in the law-making process

With kind regards