FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[Louis Friend]

[Tobi]

I think prices are a very sensitive issue, but i just want to add that i also sometimes shake my head when i see the Tucson prices. Sure, the really top-notch specimens deserve high prices, but it seems as if even ordinary stuff has prices sometimes ten times or more higher than on German shows. But that's also the comforting aspect: I don't see those insane (sorry) prices come to Europe.

[Jesse Fisher]

As someone who attends both the Tucson and Munich shows regularly, I honestly can not say that I see any differences between the general level of prices at either. Mineral dealing is an international business these days. The best specimens follow the money. The dealers with the best (and for the most part, most expensive) specimens are present at the major shows around the world, and I have not noticed that the prices they have on their offerings vary much, if at all, between the venues. Many European collectors seem to think that the high prices are an American thing but this is not true. One will see high prices on specimens anywhere there are wealthy collectors to be found. We have our concentrations of them in places such as Dallas and Houston, but there seem to be plenty of them in Europe, and now China. And it seems that there are more showing up in the hobby all the time, which means that the price of good minerals isn't coming down ant time soon. If, like me, you're not one of the ones who can write 5- and 6-figure checks on a regular basis the only option is simply to hunt harder for the bargains.

[ian jones]

Have to agree with Jesse. For the top pieces,there is no difference between US and European prices. And really not much difference for the more run of the mill pieces either.

[B&A]

Louis, i agree with "is not going to get any cheaper".
Unless the mineral collecting hobby is dying, but I do not think so, there is still a lot of interest among young people + other things..

Tobias, I'm also totally agree with you.
I have only seen a few shows and fairs yet, but never saw the "Tucson" prices.
And it is not my intention to say whether is good or bad, i was just a bit amazed, and as long as everyone is happy with the stuff they buy, there is not a problem..

[Peter Megaw]

I think I see more variation between dealers than between continents...

And I'm with Jesse, the hunt is more than half the fun. I often enjoy a sleeper I find in a corner somewhere...one that fits perfectly into some sub-theme of the collection but doesn't cost a bundle... more than a trophy that plays to my main theme that was front and center in someone's booth. I think this is one of the benefits of specialty collecting...it gives one reason to look beyond the eye candy placed to snag the unwary.

[Jordi Fabre]

[Joseph DOliveira]

I first started mineral collecting for the second time in 1997, I was fortunate to be able to attend the Denver and Tucson shows regularly. Through the mid 90's prices rose significantly and it was virtually impossible to purchase a well crystallized specimen for under $50. At that time, many dealers were bemoaning the fact that sales were falling off and there were fewer collectors visiting the shows. It was apparent that young collectors in particular were becoming a rarity, they were just being priced out of the market.

When I moved back to Canada, I decided to take my mineral hobby to the next level and became a mineral dealer. The mineral collecting hobby is much smaller in Canada and collectors are generally not as sophisticated as the European or American collectors.
At that time, I wanted to bring more people to the hobby, especially younger collectors, so I focused on selling well crystallized mineral specimens in the $5-$50 range.

I started by purchasing a small inexpensive collection and cruising the internet looking for wholesale dealers where I could find inexpensive bulk purchases. With a lot of hard work and time invested, I was able to develop an inventory of good quality mid to lower end material. The internet was a boon to source material and develop contacts from foreign countries, that I would not have been able to many years ago.

More recently, I have seen wholesale prices increase significantly as foreign dealers are able to take advantage of on line sources to sell their specimens. Where the internet was a place to source affordable material, it is now becoming a venue that drives prices.

As for Tucson, I spent eight days there this year and bulk mineral prices were a little higher than I had remembered from two years ago. The one observation that I made was that the quality of some of the more common species was lower and availability wasn't there. I made several excellent bulk purchases because I was lucky to be in the right place at the right time. That is the beauty of a show like Tucson, there are so many venues, that if you persevere you can still get quality specimens at affordable prices.

All in all, the market will always dictate prices, as mineral specimens are a discretionary purchase. There will always be specimens that are over priced and those that are under priced. I can't speak for the variation between European and American prices but I can certainly state that there is approximately a 40% discount to mineral prices in Canada, relative to the United States.

[Jesse Fisher]

Good point, Jordi. I have noticed that many European dealers will not put their best and most expensive specimens on public display at shows, but will keep them "under the table" to be shown privately to select customers. American dealers, on the other hand, tend to try and advertise the fact that they have high quality (and expensive) specimens, perhaps in hope of attracting the sort of customers that are capable of purchasing them. I think the fact that these high priced goods are more readily seen on display at American shows leads to photos of a lot of them in show reports, which are seen around the world. This may give the impression to those not familiar with how things work here that specimens are more expensive at shows like Tucson than at Munich or Ste. Marie.

[keldjarn]

As a regular visitor to many international mineral shows (Munich every year for nearly 40 years, Tucson for more than 20 years etc) I find this discussion interesting and mostly agree with Jordi and Jesse. But there is a significant difference in the way shows are organized and reports are being made to the web. In the USA - and especially in Tucson there are different venues and location catering to different quality and price segments. Even at the same venue the offering may differ from early to late in the shows. In most other international shows all dealers and minerals are offered at the same time and venue. Reports therefore tends to reflect a broader range of dealers and mineral prices. In Tucson the webreports seem to focus on the very high end shows and dealers and often start with the Westward Look show at a time when other shows have been open for nearly 2 weeks with a broader range of also affordable specimens available. The specimens pictured in these reports and the prices shown therefore do not reflect the true diversity of the minerals offered in Tucson during the different shows. There is also a stronger social competitive edge to mineral collecting in the USA and this is exploited by the dealers who show off their best specimens and highest prices to a larger degree than in Europe. During the last 20 years of purchasing specimens for my collection both in Tucson, Munich, Denver, St. Marie and elsewhere my experience is that the main difference in prices is between dealers. Real high-end specimens of popular minerals have escalated steeply in price on all continents. But there are still bargains to be made for the knowledgable and dedicated hunter.

[Greg Toomey]

Prices will continue to increase, sleepers can almost always be found, and mineral prices rise exponentially in relation to quality. If you get to Tucson early and can stay through the main show, know the different venues to go to and what to look for at each place ( gem specimens, old collections, new finds, rarities, etc. ), you can find things that appeal to your budget and taste. I'm fortunate enough to live in Tucson and can afford to see and visit the show ( when I'm off from work ) from early start to finish. I know my limits and what I'm searching for, but am open to finding a treasure(s) that I wasn't looking for at a price I'm willing to pay ( or such a good deal as to be foolish to pass up ). As Jesse pointed out, the reports almost always feature "the best" and most expensive.

The only way to give a complete report on the Tucson show would be to have 3-5 dedicated reporters at the various mineral venues around town, and have about 60-80 pages on this forum regarding just the Tucson experience - the cheap, the expensive, the good, the bad and the ugly. That's just not possible.

The enormity of the Tucson Show is what makes the hunt at Tucson exciting, disappointing and rewarding at the same time. This despite of, and perhaps, because of the continuing rise in mineral prices.

Greg

[Joseph DOliveira]

[Peter Megaw]

Tucson thanks you and extends a hearty welcome to all those who have not yet had the opportunity to experience our particular manifestation of mineral madness. Beware though...it can become habit forming

[Gail]

We are going to Munich for the first time this year, will do a show report there also. My show reports are about where we go, what we do, who we do it with. I cannot be everywhere and nor can I spend weeks at the show, so I encourage others to take up the other places and events to show a more rounded picture of what Tucson is about. I know people who are done and home by the time WL comes about.
Due to time constraints I have often chomped at the bit to see some of the tents and their wares. I have chosen some fine and inexpensive minerals there, and have been pleased with the bargains and the variety you can find, in the past. There are minerals for everyone, and at very wonderful prices, noone should go home empty handed.
Hey, I come from the art world, it was my business for over 30 years. Want to talk about prices all over the place????

[str4hler]

I was at the TEFAF today Gail. Wanna talk art prices? ;)