We use cookies to show content based on your preferences. If you continue to browse you accept their use and installation. More information. >

FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board
The place to share your mineralogical experiences


Spanish message board






Newest topics and users posts
08 Nov-06:32:28 Re: don lum collection (Carles Millan)
08 Nov-03:35:38 Re: the mim museum in beirut, lebanon (Mim Museum)
07 Nov-23:49:49 The mizunaka collection - rhodochrosite (Am Mizunaka)
07 Nov-11:19:38 Re: collection of michael shaw (Michael Shaw)
07 Nov-11:17:19 Re: intermineral liège 2024 (Bob Carnein)
06 Nov-21:33:14 Re: intermineral liège 2024 (Matt_zukowski)
06 Nov-11:15:04 Re: where is this amethyst from? (Indigo08)
06 Nov-10:46:03 Re: where is this amethyst from? (Peter Megaw)
06 Nov-09:26:30 Re: where is this amethyst from? (Indigo08)
06 Nov-09:25:29 Re: intermineral liège 2024 (James Catmur)
06 Nov-00:02:50 Re: intermineral liège 2024 (Roger Warin)
05 Nov-17:13:28 Re: in memoriam - josé zendrera has left us, but josele is still here (Firmo Espinar)
05 Nov-17:06:21 Re: intermineral liège 2024 (Michael Shaw)
05 Nov-15:17:48 Intermineral liège 2024 (Roger Warin)
05 Nov-02:38:03 Re: munich show (mineralientage) 2024 (James Catmur)
04 Nov-23:47:41 Re: collection of volkmar stingl (Volkmar Stingl)
04 Nov-17:44:39 In memoriam - josé zendrera has left us, but josele is still here (Jordi Fabre)
04 Nov-13:35:35 Re: where is this amethyst from? (James Catmur)
04 Nov-11:24:54 Where is this amethyst from? (Indigo08)
04 Nov-09:32:50 Re: collection of michael shaw - dioptase (Michael Shaw)
03 Nov-13:25:24 Re: granitic pegmatite? (James Catmur)
02 Nov-22:18:41 The mizunaka collection - quartz (Am Mizunaka)
02 Nov-08:49:28 Re: granitic pegmatite? (Pegmatiteappreciator)
02 Nov-02:06:38 Re: collection of volkmar stingl (Volkmar Stingl)
01 Nov-16:04:04 Re: collection of firmo espinar (Firmo Espinar)

For lists of newest topics and postings click here


RSS RSS

View unanswered posts

Why and how to register

Index Index
 FAQFAQ RegisterRegister  Log inLog in
 {Forgotten your password?}Forgotten your password?  

Like
116083


The time now is Nov 08, 2024 20:56

Search for a textSearch for a text   

A general guide for using the Forum with some rules and tips
The information provided within this Forum about localities is only given to allow reference to them. Any visit to any of the localities requires you to obtain full permission and relevant information prior to your visit. FMF is strictly against any illicit activities related to collecting minerals.
Hematite twins (article in Rocks & Minerals Jan/Feb 2018)
  
  Index -> Rocks & Minerals
Like
2


View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message

Duncan Miller




Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 138
Location: South Africa


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: May 06, 2018 01:11    Post subject: Hematite twins (article in Rocks & Minerals Jan/Feb 2018)  

This is a question for Peter Richards. I have been reading your beautifully illustrated article with Mirjan Žorž (in Rocks & Minerals Jan/Feb 2018) about hematite twins from the Kalahari Manganese Field, and am a bit baffled. The penetration twin on {001} I understand. The contact twin on {001} you rightly say is more readily visualised as twinning on {010}. What I don't understand is its equivalence with twinning on {001}. Please could I ask you to help with some additional explanation.

Edit: Actually I think I have got it now. With reference to the drawing in Figure 3, one half of the crystal is reflected in (001), which is equivalent to a rotation of 180 degrees around [010]. Is that correct?
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Pete Richards
Site Admin



Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 833
Location: Northeast Ohio


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: May 13, 2018 19:28    Post subject: Re: Hematite twins (article in Rocks & Minerals Jan/Feb 2018)  

Hi Duncan,

Sorry to be so slow in answering your question. But my "patience" allowed you to figure it out yourself, for the most part!

The article is probably guilty of not providing enough detail to make this easily understood. I'm glad that someone tried to figure it out.

Step one is to observe that, in terms of the structural relationships among the twins, a twin by reflection on {001} is equivalent to a rotation of one portion through 180° about [001], the c-axis. In the case of these diamond-shaped twins, one half is related by that 180° rotation to the other half, so it is the same twin law.

The overall morphology, however, suggests twinning by reflection across {010}, Here the article is careless, in saying that this is the same thing as twinning on {001}. IT IS NOT!

At the level of overall morphology it is, but in detail it is not. Later in the article it is pointed out that the triangular decorations (manifestations of the three-fold symmetry of the underlying crystal structure) point in opposite directions on each half of the twin. This is consistent with twinning by rotation through 180° about [001], but not with reflection across {010}, under which operation the triangles should point in the same direction on each half.

I hope this resolves your sense of confusion. You were right to be confused!

Thanks for catching this!

_________________
Collecting and studying crystals with interesting habits, twinning, and epitaxy
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
1
   

Duncan Miller




Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 138
Location: South Africa


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: May 14, 2018 04:15    Post subject: Re: Hematite twins (article in Rocks & Minerals Jan/Feb 2018)  

Hello Pete

Thanks for responding and your clarification. The inverted triangles are what got me thinking of rotation about [010] = mirror on {001} (which at first I could not visualise at all), but rotation about [001] as you describe has the same effect. It is clear they are not the result of reflection on {010} or they would point in the same direction.

Now, am I correct in thinking the sides of the diamond-shaped contact twins are crystallographically equivalent to second order prism faces (in order for the composition plane to be (010))?

Duncan
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   

Pete Richards
Site Admin



Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 833
Location: Northeast Ohio


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: May 25, 2018 12:24    Post subject: Re: Hematite twins (article in Rocks & Minerals Jan/Feb 2018)  

Hi Duncan,

Your questions have caused me and my co-author to re-examine this kind of twinning, and some of what we stated in the article is incorrect.

In the section where we discuss the diamond-shaped platy twins from Germany and Italy, we stated that they are twins by rotation through 180° about the c-axis [001], with {100} as the composition plane.

The composition plane of these twins is actually {110}, not {100}. {110} is the plane of mirror symmetry in hematite. The triangular surface patterns in Figure 3 of the article (reproduced with modification below) demonstrate that each individual of the twin has mirror symmetry in the vertical direction as drawn, parallel to the contact surface between the two individuals. The two individuals are not related by this same symmetry relationship, however, because this is not a twin by reflection on {110}. The twin is by rotation about the c-axis, as stated, and {110} only serves as the contact plane.

In fact, reflection across {110} cannot produce a twin in hematite, because {110} is a symmetry element (mirror plane) in the hematite structure itself, and twinning relationships must introduce a new symmetry element, one that is not already present in the untwinned structure.

The attached drawing will hopefully help clarify this.



Fig 3c.jpeg
 Mineral: Hematite
 Description:
Diagram showing symmetry elements in the diamond-shaped twin. The left half is related to the right half by a 180° rotation, and the two halves are joined along a (110) plane. The edges of the diamond belong to the form {100}.
 Viewed:  41751 Time(s)

Fig 3c.jpeg



_________________
Collecting and studying crystals with interesting habits, twinning, and epitaxy
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
1
   

Duncan Miller




Joined: 25 Apr 2009
Posts: 138
Location: South Africa


Access to the FMF Gallery title=

View user's profile

Send private message

PostPosted: May 26, 2018 01:35    Post subject: Re: Hematite twins (article in Rocks & Minerals Jan/Feb 2018)  

Hello Pete
Thank you for your clarifiication (and correction), and the new diagram that illustrates the twinning very clearly.
So that others may see where the problem lay, my confusion arose from these sentences in the R & M publication (p 67). "The composition plane of the twin is {010}, which is perpendicular to c{001}. Geometrically, these are perhaps easier to understand as twins on {010}, but crystallographically this is not different from twinning on {001} with a {010} composition surface . . .).
It is tricky for those used to the old (hkil) morphological indexing to visualise the structural indicies, and your labelled diagram is a real help.
Duncan
Back to top
Reply to topic Reply with quote
Like
   
Display posts from previous:   
   Index -> Rocks & Minerals   All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1
    

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


All pictures, text, design © Forum FMF 2006-2024


Powered by FMF