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Breakfast With Minerals - Podcast Discussion - Episode 02
  
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BlueCapProductions




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PostPosted: Aug 07, 2018 06:14    Post subject: Breakfast With Minerals - Podcast Discussion - Episode 02  

The next Episode of Breakfast With Minerals will be available online on August 15, 2018.

In Episode Two Gail and Jim Spann sit down with Ian Bruce, Alan Hart, Christoph Keilmann, John Cornish, Jolyon Ralph and Peter Lyckberg to further discuss The Current State of the Mineral Collecting World and How we Preserve it for Future Generations.

We're looking forward to reading your comments right here!

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PostPosted: Aug 07, 2018 08:12    Post subject: Re: Breakfast With Minerals - Podcast Discussion - Episode 02  

I've watched every single video you've ever uploaded on youtube! Huge fan and love the beautiful specimens you document! Dave is a true gem too; his commentary is priceless
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PostPosted: Aug 07, 2018 18:43    Post subject: Re: Breakfast With Minerals - Podcast Discussion - Episode 02  

Thank you Oliver. I hope you also find these podcasts equally interesting.

And speaking of video clips on YouTube, here's our latest one shot at the 2018 Westward Look Show featuring Dave Wilber interview Dylan Stolowitz from Green Mountain Minerals as they talk about The Tarugo!!!

https://youtu.be/t1KkNsFcGIY

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PostPosted: Aug 08, 2018 02:01    Post subject: Re: Breakfast With Minerals - Podcast Discussion - Episode 02  

Awesome, just subbed podcast and youtube, will check out tonight. I really hope the podcast is informative for me, i listen and relisten to podcasts at work, dont have time for videos much but podcasts i can learn from and hosted by people easy to listen to i enjoy and have huge respect for. Don’t know of any other rock podcasts so looking forward to this as well. Thanks for letting us know and hope it works out for you.
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PostPosted: Aug 08, 2018 06:39    Post subject: Re: Breakfast With Minerals - Podcast Discussion - Episode 02  

Ok just had a listen to first podcast. Not as interesting as I'd hoped but a relevant topic of discussion. As a non American I'd say the discussion was very American, but I'll leave that off topic view. Just observational feedback really for Blue Cap. Audio was good and clear especially Brian I think, the host. Don't know if he had a better mic setup and better balanced recording levels. At least you had no jarring intro music that would be out of place.

The decline of young collectors I think is unfortunately more a result of a societal shift that has created restrictions and become laws with ease everywhere.. for example even land not being used has fences and no trespassing signs on it, whereas 30 yrs. ago it was open and it's where we played marbles, had mock battles with our friends, and made jumps for our bmx. Now overprotective parents, people suing because their child scratched their knee, health and safety, etc. etc. that has become a normal part of life that puts so many barriers up for anyone to do anything. Part of that is in order to do something someone else wants money too. Whether as a guide, a land owner, or just someone who knows a “secret” spot. Children are still curious about the world they live in, but all these fences and social barriers inhibit them wondering whats over there. They just don't have access anymore. Growing up, my parents were divorced and holidays I stayed with my dad. We often traveled long distances by car between towns without fences and keep out signs. It felt welcoming and we could stop anywhere and just look around. No ticket queues or parking hassles or booking ahead. One time in particular my dad took me to an abandoned mine and we drove up the road straight to a huge tailing pile, must of been conical at one time but part had collapsed forming a volcano shape with water in it. We just pulled up a few feet away from this pile, the water was crystal clear and the pile was calcite and peacock ore. In the afternoon sun it was all magical, the bright white calcite, the rainbows from peacock ore everywhere, seemed like a mountain but probably 10-12 ft tall and I could climb and slide down with rainbows sparkling all around. This is what people don’t get anymore, to experience natural geology. Museums don't let you touch and feel, books don't show the colors, the reflection, the depth of transparency you see in person outdoors, the wonder of taking a boring brown rock and spitting on it to reveal colorful bands of an agate. This is where inspiration is born which generates questions and exploration.

Something I was always and still am disappointed by is books on rocks and minerals typically show you outcroppings where a mineral could be found and a superb museum specimen of a quality and size most of us will never get to see. I would love to see reference books that show and teach each specimen, not just the best but the poor and average grade specimens that we typically encounter. Along with the morphology/growth of the minerals that would help fossickers find better specimens. For example, on a school excursion once we went orienteering and when we got there I noticeed lots of quartz on the ground. It was chunks of white but very shiny not grain like I normally saw. As I wandered around at the event I watched the ground, finding chunks that got a little clearer and following those started finding chunks containing crystal facets then gave up on the event and searched around more closely looking for patches and seams of quartz. I ended up finding heaps of small clusters and singles of clear/white quartz crystals. Just because I knew quartz in its various grades and observed these different forms in an area I just happened to be. Filled my pockets best I could, was really happy with my little treasure trove and still have them all, nothing large or valuable or would make anyone go wow. But I found them myself and they are a memorable part of me and my collection. How many times do people find gold only to be told its pyrite? The reference and education given only shows the exceptional specimens and people don't learn to recognize the inferior forms that are typically what we encounter.? Its very easy for someone to say its clear and red and think its a giant ruby instead of spinel or garnet.

Hand in hand with the topic of getting young people into the hobby is what are the old people doing to leave a legacy when they pass away? Do you have research notes that may be handed in to someone to continue? Is your collection going to be donated to somewhere that isn't going to close down next year or to someone who’s just going to ebay it all for peanuts? Or is it going to be dumped because its a bunch of rocks? A lot of collectors have put substantial time and money and even personal research into their collections and odds are it will all be lost and never see the light of day again.

Anyway looking forward to more podcasts and I'll try to check your vids when I have a chance. :)
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PostPosted: Aug 08, 2018 21:56    Post subject: Re: Breakfast With Minerals - Podcast Discussion - Episode 02  

Steve,

GREAT feedback, I completely understand what you're saying. It's hard for me to make an exact parallel because as a kid, I was running up and down the tunnels of the Stewart Mine in Pala with nothing more than a candle. But I understand what you’re saying in a different way.

As a child my father and I would do lots of LOOONG road trips - usually running after minerals (which I had no interest in). However, what this did instill in me was a love of camping. One summer my father and I headed east in his Jeep Cherokee with no plans other than to just explore. We spent 30 days on the road - just him, myself and the dog - and spent one night in a hotel. All the other nights we’d find some area where we could pull far off the road and we’d make camp. We’d cool by a campfire, talk, laugh and eventually fall asleep. We’d wake up, make breakfast by re-lighting the campfire and then spend the rest of the day driving. It was magical. We never stayed at an RV park or a designated campsite and we always made sure our campsite was spotless and safe when we left. That kind of thing is mostly gone now and I miss it because I would love to share that with my kids.

But if you look at the wildfires that we’ve had over the past decade caused by careless campers and if you look at the trash that’s left behind by everyone, you begin to understand why it had to go away. So we adjust and do the best we can with where we are now.

I believe that mineral collecting is similar. We’re never going to turn back the clock and we’ll never get back what we once had. HOWEVER, there are new tools that we have at our disposal with which we can move forward. In my film Pederneira: A Rainbow of Colors, you can actually be inside the Pederneira mine as the miners talk about what it felt like when the pockets were found. You can also watch sample specimens from each pocket rotating 360 degrees in space as you’re listening to the story. Before this film, you had to be one of the select twelve people on the planet to do this. Now, THOUSANDS of people have been able to experience this. It doesn’t replace the thrill of seeing things come out of the ground live but it’s a pretty darn good second place.

Also, there are more and more Pay-To-Dig places popping up. Maybe it’s a bit too touristy for some but you combine these two experiences, add it to what you can see at the mineral shows around the world, not to mention what you can find on the Internet, and I think we’re heading into a new Golden Age of Minerals.

Is it different than what we had before? Absolutely. Is it better? Each person has to be their own judge but the fact remains that’s what we have available to us right now. And as the future unfolds and virtual reality becomes more mainstream, who’s to say what will develop for collectors?

I just finished filming a video where the viewer gets to go on a walk down through the tunnels of the Rogerley Mine as one of the miners points out all the pockets and things that happened in the past. That’s pretty amazing. The next step would be to turn that into a 360 degree immersive video where you, as the viewer, can rotate the camera as it travels down the tunnel. Cool but a bit too gimmicky for me. But who knows what the future will bring.

In so far as the podcast itself, yes, a VERY American perspective. The interesting thing will be when you listen to Episode 2 which has a VERY European perspective. Our guests are Jolyon Ralph (UK), Peter Lyckberg (Luxembourg), Alan Hart (UK), Christoph Keilmann (Germany), Ian Bruce (UK) and John Cornish (European-SOUNDING last name but here because no one has given more presentation to kid on minerals than John).

In Denver this year we’ll record a Part 3 of this same topic where we are gathering a group of Young Dealers and Young Collectors. I have NO idea what that’s going to be like but I think all three of these episodes will work together.

And again, the purpose of these three episodes isn’t to present a solution but rather to spark an on-going conversation. Which is what we’re doing. So good on you!!!



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PostPosted: Aug 09, 2018 02:51    Post subject: Re: Breakfast With Minerals - Podcast Discussion - Episode 02  

SteveB wrote:

I agree we can’t go back, as Roland in The Dark Tower would put it “the world has moved on”. Like many things when they start going one direction people push hard to put it back and it swings past to a new unbalance, back and forth until consensus reaches a balance. We have government wanting their piece of money in every part of any transaction, we have bad human nature where some feel an accident is something they have to sue for, yes we have people being careless (garbaged campsites, brushfires etc), meaningless destruction and vandalism of natural and historic wonders. The are things we haven't instilled in society the worth of looking, not touching or taking, or breaking. I don't know about the rest of you but I have some very nice specimens and would never dare break them or mistreat them and likewise if I encountered a similar specimen in the wild like on a rock wall that I couldn't remove without extensive damage I would leave it be. Not smash it to deny others of it or just to get a piece for myself. I've no doubt broken laws by acquiring some pieces, but its only loose surface specimens I grab, I've rarely ever dug or pried open cracks. Pretty much most of my personal collecting is confined to what fits in my pocket at the time. Why do people litter? Why do they smash public toilets? Shoot at signs? And why don't their friends stop them or dob them in? People wanting a quick www.spam.org or quick thrill showing off is something we need more pressure on to discourage so that natural environments can be safe from vandals. Societal change, it's something we can all do, not wait for the government to do. Next time you’re at a party and someone is getting picked on or someones car spray painted for fun, don't just film it for youtube and laugh along. At the least turn away in disgust. It takes time but will be quicker than you think.

Look at public smoking, 30 yrs ago most people smoked and they did it everywhere, now it's the norm to not smoke and where you can is limited. Sure it was driven but it was an acceptance in society that made it stick and has been instilled in the young these days. Wife beating, racial intolerance, all sorts of things used to be commonly accepted in society but no more. Today I see a large problem we have is fear, blame and over protection. Too many rules are there “just in case”. Slight car accident and cops close off street for forensics crews to document scene and fire trucks to clean up the water leak from a radiator in their hazmat suits. Someone drops a thermometer in a classroom and the school is quarantined off. When I was in school, we had an open petri dish the teacher poured mercury into so we could play with it with our fingers. People do use common sense most of the time, maybe we need to let the idiots find out the hard way if they won't conform to societal norms, and everyone needs to calm down and accept an accident is just that, an accident. Rather than a quick route to wealth by suing anyone remotely associated in any way.

I guess my point is I don’t think any proposed solutions will help in the long term and may work to get a few people interested. But I think we need people as a whole to show common sense instead of fear, altruism instead of greed. If we all do a little extra for others maybe we can get change happening bit by bit.

I’m sure you all share your collection with friends and family, but do you open your main display and let them handle specimens directly? I have very few items I won’t handle myself due to fragility but I let anyone, especially children who ask about “that sparkly green thing” handle them. I have carpet floor and most of my stuff is safe enough if dropped. I find if I’m nervous about someone handling something, they get nervous, but if I show its no big deal they are fine and careful and tend to look closer and ask more questions.

There’s also a culture I’ve seen here in Australia, not sure how wide spread it is that collectors who fossick are unwilling to share good locations with others unless you buy their “treasure map”. Again money creeps in instead of just sharing locations. Of course someone would offer a website and database but will require money for their altruism. Take a look at Geocaching. Its a treasure hunt style game for GPS users. Its grown to accommodate a variety of cache types, one of which is a virtual cache which is a location, not somewhere a cache is hidden, sometimes touristy spots, but often great natural locations just off the regular track with rarely seen views etc. Mineral locations could be added in as virtual caches as places for people to explore. No digging required. A “cache owner” could also set a goal for users to log the cache as being “found”. Such as photograph three agates found in the area, or photograph the lightning bolt quartz vein on the cliff wall. You though, something simple to encourage a little knowledge and fossicking interest/skills. Multicaches often involve visiting a number of locations to gather numbers to build up the final cache location, so how about take an old prospectors legend to make a multicache that takes you to the historical railway station where he arrived in town, to the saloon he got drunk at, to a local museum to learn where mineral deposits were made etc and the final location a place where anyone can safely fossick and maybe strike it rich! Use your imagination along with your skills and knowledge to find ways to incorporate minerals, geology, mining skills and knowledge. I'm sure there’s room for archeology to be tied in too with simple activities that teach use of certain tools to reduce people just going heavy with sledgehammers and dynamite and give people simple skills to read the terrain to get an indication of what minerals are in the ground and where to look. We’re an aging population and it would be a shame for knowledge to be lost with our passing.

It's interesting how you bonded well with your father similarly but different. I enjoyed camping but never really got into it or continued after his passing in the 80s. For me it was the exploring and he taught me so much about all sorts of things, he was a good father. In hindsight a bit of a mystery to me though, I recently asked relatives about him and no one thought he had any interest in rocks and minerals even though he worked in a mine. He taught me so very much and brought me so many awesome specimens that I can now appreciate would be quite valuable and not look out of place in a museum. No doubt these were “lunchbox specimens” saved from blasting, but no idea. I can now regret breaking many open to look for more of the interesting things on the outside on the inside. Taught me much about cleavage and how some parts of a rock are fairly homogeneous throughout and some exhibit an external only coating. I didn't break everything as a child, I have a wonderful trilobite fossil and a large green beryl crystal (which will bring me to my final comment.) Ebay.

Yes, the internet can offer much and has to this any many other hobbies. But it has also made it easier for hucksters and scammers to fleece people too. My green beryl is my prize and very personal to me. No idea on value but the same specimen in someone else's hands will end up on ebay as an emerald no doubt (being green and clear) with a 5 or 6 figure starting price. There are so many specimens that have been treated or grown being sold as “natural” specimens, or complete misrepresentations like corundum being sold as sapphire and ruby. Just because sapphire and ruby are corundum, does not make the reverse true. But people are fleeced all the time because of the misrepresentation. So there is misinformation we need to fight against too in order to educate and protect people from their ignorance. That's not to say corundum is not worth buying to add to your collection but certain not at the price of a 200 ct cut sapphire. How do any of us really get a truly natural specimen unless they dig it out the ground ourselves where provenance is easy to fake and hard to prove. Maybe we need technology to deliver us a pocket mass spectrometer that's easy to use to determine the chemical signatures in a sample that will confirm identity and location and possibly treatment signatures too. I'm sure there’s people working on similar geology devices to put on rovers going to the moon and mars etc.



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PostPosted: Aug 10, 2018 13:17    Post subject: Re: Breakfast With Minerals - Podcast Discussion - Episode 01  

Loved listening to your cast. I really liked the points that were brought up about educating and drawing in new people and kids. As you know that has been my passion with the Mineralogical Society of Arizona. BTW, our membership in our club has grown over the last 5 years from 40 to over 350. Largely because of how active we are.

Keep up the good work, I look forward to your next episode.
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PostPosted: Aug 10, 2018 16:01    Post subject: Re: Breakfast With Minerals - Podcast Discussion - Episode 02  

Dawn,

Congratulations!!! I can't believe the number of members. You guys REALLY have got something going on there. Maybe There's a future episode with you guys talking about what you've done and how some of the kids have reacted and benefitted.

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PostPosted: Aug 10, 2018 18:33    Post subject: Re: Breakfast With Minerals - Podcast Discussion - Episode 02  

Would be happy to chat about our strategy as well as our phenomenal junior program. Anytime. We can talk in Dallas, I assume you'll be there. 😉
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PostPosted: Aug 10, 2018 19:46    Post subject: Re: Breakfast With Minerals - Podcast Discussion - Episode 02  

But of course!
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PostPosted: Aug 18, 2018 19:41    Post subject: Re: Breakfast With Minerals - Podcast Discussion - Episode 02  

Episode 2 of Breakfast With Minerals is now LIVE!!!

Join host Gail and Jim Spann as they sit down and discuss The State of the Mineral World and How to Preserve it for Future Generations with:

Ian Bruce - The Owner of Crystal Classics, based out of Somerset, England. Ian is one of the biggest and most successful mineral dealers in all of Europe. In addition to this, he is also one of the most prolific mineral specimen mining operators with concurrent operations in progress in Ukraine, Australia and Northern England.

Alan Hart - CEO of Gem-A and former Head of Earth Sciences Collections and Principle Curator of Gems and Minerals at the Natural History Museum of London (aka The British Museum). Alan is now the CEO of Gem-A in the UK as well as the host of What's Hot In Munich. Alan brings an incredible mix of mineralogical background, museum perspective and gem-world savvy to the table.

Christoph Keilmann - Show Promoter for the biggest mineral show in Europe - the Munich Show - and second largest mineral show in the world. Christoph is constantly pushing the envelope in his efforts to continue the over 50-year tradition of creating museum-quality exhibitions at this incredibly popular and successful show.

John Cornish - A consummate field-collector and miner. John is based out of the Pacific Northwest of America and is only truly happy when he's mining and digging specimens or when he's baking freshly picked wild-berry pies. John's enthusiasm for mineral collecting comes out most obviously when he's giving presentations to kids and, honestly, there is probably no one in the mineral world who has given more presentations to kids than John himself.

Jolyon Ralph - The Creator of MinDat.org and now GemDat.org. Jolyon's encyclopedic websites are the industry standard for in-depth information on mineral species, mineral localities and mineral photographs for all minerals around the world.

Peter Lyckberg - One of the best known European collectors, Peter Lyckberg, is also joining us today. Peter is based out of Luxembourg and is an independent collector with over 50 years of mineral-collecting field experience. Peter is also a much sought-after speaker on mineral topics such as the minerals of Scandinavia, Russia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Brazil, Morocco and Namibia.


This FREE podcast can be found here:
https://bwm.fireside.fm/02


Take a listen and share your thoughts right here on the FMF board!!!

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