FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[John S. White]

I thought it might be interesting to explore some of the ideas or techniques people have for protecting mineral specimens when shipping them. I would like to start this off by describing one of my pet peeves, one that I am sure is shared by many who receive minerals by mail. I really object to people putting any form of tape on bubblewrap. The tape usually adheres to the bubble wrap so tightly that it cannot be peeled off. This means you have to take a razor blade to the wrapping in order to open it, or struggle to tear it open. Either way you probably ruin the buddle wrap so that it can't be re-used, you get annoyed at the difficulty of unwrapping the package, you may actually damage the specimen, and you probably curse and swear a lot in the process. I would still advocate using bubble wrap for many minerals but, instead of tape, just put rubber bands around the wrapping. The rubber bands are easily removed, and both the bubble wrap and the rubber bands can be used again.

[simonoff]

Great topic John Thanks!!!

I agree on the taped bubble wrap completely!

I have received packages where the mineral was wrapped in paper towel - in some cases this is acceptable, but in the case of the "fractal" stibnites it can be very destructive.

I have received thumbnails which were not properly secured in their boxes, so were destroyed by bouncing about inside their boxes. Some people wrap the mineral in dry cleaner's plastic then close the thumbnail box - this seems to work well.

Finally, and unfortunately, I have never received an undamaged heavy piece. They always seem to get abused in transit.

I once received an group of 10 minerals from India (the other side of the world for me). This package had the most incredible packing I have seen. Each mineral was tightly wrapped in dry cleaner's plastic, then placed in its own styrofoam box, then wrapper in toilet paper, then placed in a box 2x bigger and filled with packing peanuts.

Bob

[Maggie Wilson]

It is a great topic, and timely too. I have been eyeing some of the velvety rosasite that has come on the market lately and have come to the conclusion that it would barely survive the packing process, let alone shipping. How does a seller prepare such a piece for transport?

We learned something about mineral tack when we received an item from overseas. Tack at room temperature might be enough to secure a piece to the base of the perky box, but in the high cold altitudes of an airplane, the tack loses it's stick and the mineral bounces merrily along for the ride. Additional packing material is necessary.

For some of our more delicate pieces, we encase them in a glue of icing sugar - the receiver gives them a nice warm bath and the sugar melts away. Or, we pack slightly sturdier pieces in laundry powder. Powder and sugar do add to the final shipping weight however, so be prepared for that.

When shipping radioactive minerals, we are obligated to meet postal regulations regarding radiation levels at the outside of the box. We pack the piece in a small box, then mount it in the center of a piece of cardboard that will fit diagonally in the largest box possible (30 x 30 x 30 cm) . Sometimes we need to use lead foil for very hot pieces. This has worked very well for us. Again, extra shipping weight to consider.

I agree with Bob that pieces from India have the most elaborate packing. We have received thumbnail specimens wrapped in tissue or bubble wrap, then encased in a plastic food containter, then sealed with cotton fabric and sewn shut, then in a mailing envelope! I was fascinated by the ammount of work that went into the packing.

I look forward to other discussion!

Maggie

[Tobi]

When i prepare minerals for shipping, there are usually three steps to offer them a save travel:

Step 1: Enwrap the specimen with some layers of paper towel and fix it with some small pieces of adhesive tape.

Step 2: Enwrap it with a second layer, which (according to the fragility of the specimen) may be either some large newspaper pages (only for robust specimens) or bubble wrap (better for fragile ones). After unwrapping, i also fix that with some small pieces of adhesive tape. Note, according to John: Only small pieces of tape to prevent the use of a razor blade when it is opened up again ;-)

Step 3: Carefully placing the specimen in a stable package box which is not too small, so that the emtpy space can be filled with packing peanuts or rumpled paper. Important is that the specimen is surrounded to all sides by that filling material, so that it is not in touch with the inner surface of the package. If this is assured, even a throw or a drop must not harm the mineral, except it is a really large and heavy specimen.

After several years of shipping minerals, i always (!) got the feedback that the specimens arrived without damage. And so i think that my system works ;-)

[Gerhard Niklasch]

I couldn't agree more with almost all that's already been posted, with one exception.

Two points coming to mind offhand:

+ Aside from paper towels and the like, IMHO any and all cellulose-fiber based materials should be kept well away from contacting any specimens. Gauze and cotton wool are right out.

(Anyone who has spent an hour with a brush, toothpick, etc. trying to get all the lint off the delicate beauties under the microscope to prepare them for photography, esp. under UV where any lint will really stand out brightly, will understand where this is coming from....)

Moreover, crumpled newspaper has absolutely no shock-absorbing qualities relative to any load bigger than a micromount box. It is suitable only as space filler between inner boxes that can't move anyway inside the outer box.

+ Consider shipping rather heavy and rather light specimens separately, or at least safely encased in separate inner boxes. I've seen a heftier chunk of rock punch right through an adjacent plastic miniature case on one occasion.

Let me also mention that among sources in Europe, I have encountered no better packaging than the exemplary boxes with "Fabre" written on them. :) I have seen, thank goodness, a fair lot of similar quality. (And sometimes some that I found not so exciting.)

Cheers, Gerhard

[John S. White]

I must agree that our leader Jordi is about the best mineral packer I have encountered. He really does a great job.

[Paul S]

A very interesting post, thanks for bringing it up!

On the point of tape, there is a kind of tape used by painters that sticks properly, but is also easily removed. This is great stuff and I use it for sticking stuff together. It leaves no glue (and it's cheap!).

If you need to fill large gaps between boxes there are plastic cushions with air inside them. They can be small and large, but newspaper is ofcourse easier to come by and is a good to recycle as packaging material instead of throwing it away.


I was wondering though, how would you ship a single okenite sphere? They are one of the most fragile kind of minerals I have encountered, and I would not know how to transport them properly.

[alfredo]

Although others have recommended it, my pet peeve is dry cleaner's plastic! I've received two specimens that had delicate crystals broken off the matrix because of pressure from the plastic.

[Matt_Zukowski]

John, I thought you were the leader and Jordi was the "Real Leader." At least that's what Jordi told me.

It seems to me that the key with good packaging is to immobilize the item within a protective shell with a system that does not contact anything delicate. So for anything that is NOT too wispy, I have had good luck with dry cleaner bags wrapped tightly around the specimen and placed in an inner box, and then packing peanuts between inner and outer boxes. For delicate wispy things, nothing seem foolproof, but i have received successfully and unsuccessfully packages with several strategies including:
* encasing the specimen in soap or some other substance.
* firmly gluing one end of the specimen to the box so it won't detach and bounce in the packaging.
* I once received a two-generation (fractal?) stibnite placed in a dry cleaner bag "hammock" in the inner box. Some dry cleaner bag material was placed between the specimen in the hammock and the top of the box to keep the specimen in the hammock. This worked surprising well.

I have become leery of buying anything that looks too delicate.

Whenever I open a box and see toilet paper, paper towel, or newspaper (think Chinese specimens) my heart sinks because far too often the specimen was not sufficiently immobilized during shipment.

[bugrock]

Hello,

Good topic.

No guarantee is correct. Precautions should always be taken but I now hesitate at the prospect of shipping any piece that seems too delicate.

For very fine xls in my experience packing in fine soap powder (use fine borax powder) is best. Pack each piece into a sealed/taped specimen
box well surrounded by the powder and packed in a well padded outer carton.

Large pieces with xls on heavy matrix seem very vulnerable. In previous message there was recommendation to ship or pack small and large
specimens separately but consider that a large matrix plate with fine xls includes both types of material all in one and I do not know how to best pack such
pieces. The heavy matrix can act like a hammer in the package. Further some pieces have a matrix plate that is very friable, like sand loosely bound to
pebbles and when such a piece hosts long and fragile xls I hesitate to purchase and have the item shipped. Would rather make other arrangements to pick
up the item at a future show or consider another from the same location when I can visit the dealer or attend a show in person. For such items
the xls can fracture and he matrix can break into pieces.

Another problematic mineral specimen group is native copper (I assume this is also true of silver). Some pieces of this type may seem stable
but when there are many branches nested together it may not be apparent to the shipper that some branches are joined to the remainder by a very
thin wire of metal that can give way with a bit of bending. Even if the piece arrives seemingly intact it may be unstable and difficult to display without
adding "crutches" of some type o keep the piece intact.

So, what if a shipment arrives damaged?

Another thread to consider is what happens when the specimen arrives damaged? Most dealers will provide a refund in my experience.
From the buyers perspective t is the responsibility of the seller to transmit the piece to the purchaser without damage even if that entails
methods of transmittal other than shipment by the usual routes. The dealer bears the responsibility of making the judgement on how the
minerals should be shipped/hand carried etc.

For the most parts shipments arrive in good condition but unfortunately we tend to remember the disasters.

bugrock

[Jordi Fabre]

By allusions... ;-)

I think almost everything that could be said about the packing of minerals is already said in this thread, so I would like add just few more details.

- The soft plastic is definitely a great thing to wrap minerals, but we should consider a very important issue when we use it, the fact that the plastic used should be extra-thin. As Alfredo says, if the plastic is a bit hard, then you could break fragile crystals. The super-thin plastic is used by laundries to protect clothes. We should look for companies that supply these plastics to laundries to purchase them.

- The packages always receive blows, and sometimes strong blows, reaching to sink or break them. Knowing this, the only way to avoid that these blows break the minerals is protect the mineral with a double or triple box. As Matrioshkas, the mineral must go in the inner Matrioshka and then add a cushion of material that can absorb the previsible blow and set one or more Matrioshkas (boxes in this case). With this, the impact is received by the external Matrioshka and not for the mineral, protected in the last Matrioshka, the innermost.

- Sometimes the simplest is the best, one of the best packing I know is the used by the Romanian Gypsies to wrap their minerals. I saw it first time in Hungary, later I saw other people doing this kind of packing, so I'm not sure who really invented it, but I think it's great in its simplicity because it require just rolls of toilet paper and time.
Take the mineral and wrap it with a lot of laps, but not with the whole width of the paper but reduce its width to a minimum, making a kind of bandage that wraps the minerals like a mummy. The idea is that no part of the mineral remains exposed and that with the large number of turns of the toilet paper the shape of mineral disappear and it becomes a kind of "croquette". To finish the job, caught the end of the bandage in the folds of the "mummy" to avoid the slip of the whole bandage. The resultant "croquette" is very compact with the advantage that we have not pushed the mineral to prepare it. Then you can use the method you prefer to complete the packing since the "mineral-croquette" is now strong and robust rather than fragile and brittle.

The "Real Leader" ;-)

[John Cornish]

Hi John and Everyone,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts regarding shipping. I'd like to chime in, as I've not yet read of the technique I've used successfully for several years, listed. Before I do so, I'd like to share a tiny bit of introduction... I own the Rat's Nest mine in central Idaho and one of the species I recover commercially is mordenite. Mordenite is a fine, delicate mineral which forms elongated hair-like crystals and is unbelievable fragile. If anything touches it, it is destroyed. End of story. Thus the trials of shipping, and more importantly, the trials of surviving shipment are crucial for me and my customers. Needing to develop "the perfect technique" led me to using... Drum Roll please... Aluminum Foil!

Aluminum Foil has proven to be the perfect product for me to use as a shipping medium.

For walk-in's... First, prepare a box to set your fragile specimen into which is slightly larger than the specimen it will contain. Close and secure its bottom and leave its top open. Take AF and pull a length of sheet from its box as needed. Lightly crumple said sheet into a worm-like length whose height is slightly taller than the height of the specimen you'll be securing. Holding your specimen, gently encircle it with the AF... compressing the AF to the specimen as needed to perfectly hold and encase it (it is very easy to securely mold the AF around the smallest purchase points). When your done, unlike paper or plastic, there's "no spring or unraveling" to deal with, the AF keeps its shape and thus, no loose edges will mar our specimen's perfect surfaces!

With our specimen protected thusly, we'll next place it above our box's opening, our AF wreath should be slightly larger than the opening to the box, this is purposely done so that as we sink the enwrapped specimen into the box, the AF compresses and thus locks the specimen into the box securely.

To finish, add a length of tape to the inside two box flaps and secure them together from their undersides, one to the other. This prevents the inner box flaps from hanging down and contacting the specimen in any way. Pull the remaining upper two flaps of the box securely together, adding just a tiny bit of pressure to pinch the top of the box just a touch, and tape closed.

As a last touch, I instruct the customer to open the top of the box (marked TOP with a black marker) and then cut the box away by slicing down the corners of the box and then peeling the panels back to expose the specimen perfectly. From there, they'll simply unwrap the AF from the specimen and set it on their display shelf happy and triumphant!

This will get any hand-held specimen home. But, shipping, ah-ha, that's an entirely different beasty! No more the safe secure walk across the parking lot and drive home, now we'll be dealing with shippers Hell-bent on destroying our precious treasure! No worries, we can beat them too! Here's how...

Take your specimen and cocoon it in the AF as I've described above (actually, let's add just a bit more AF to enwrap our specimen as compared to above for some additional added cushion). With this accomplished, we'll next take a piece of cardboard (a cut down box usually) and cut it approximately 3 times the length of the specimens height and long enough that we can wrap it around the AF specimen to completely, securely, enclose it like a rim within a wheel. The edges of the cardboard should contact, not overlap.

At this point, we've a wrapped specimen encased protectively in AF and a tube-like roll of cardboard surrounding it with the specimen resting within, at the center of the roll. Our next steps will take a bit of effort, but we'll cut slits above and below the specimen in the cardboard so that we can pinch the top and bottom ends of the cardboard securely to entrap the enwrapped specimen like a separate little capsule within the center of the cardboard roll. Cut as needed to hold secure and then tape it all tight.

Next, we'll place this into another larger box filled with packing and rest it there-in. Enclosed within the AF, the inner capsule resting in the shipping medium within the outer box may seem like quite a bit of hassle, but... I've never lost a specimen yet. Not one!

With this technique I can accomplish the seemingly impossible... shipping mordenite mineral specimens! This works for big, heavy specimens as well.

Feel free to consider, modify or discard this idea. For me, AF has proven a wonderful addition to my shipping supplies. Additionally, AF can be used to instantly make display stands and supports, as it conforms perfectly to most any shape. I hope this helps. Thank you very much for this opportunity to share. All the absolute very best. Take care,

John

[Lou]

Having experienced John Cornish's approach to packing minerals (in my case, an exceedingly delicate natrolite), I can attest that it is amazingly effective.

[Jason]

hmm..soap flakes sound very good..well in this last year i have shipped over 4000 mineral specimens and gem rough with not one breaking, chipping, or getting damaged in any way..my shipping technique is cotton batting..4 dollar roll you buy at walmart//like 15 yards worth..it's pretty thick..wrap it mummy style like a poster above said..4000 items not one busted..now for massive pieces that need to be shipped I have always heard sawdust in a crate but I think the soap flakes would work too,. Never shipped a natrolite which is about as risky as it gets . did ship a couple of those yellow selenite bladed specimens from peru..the ones with the thin long glassy blades..had to double box those with cotton batting in both boxes..I must say your technique, John with the aluminium is fantastic..will keep that in mind

[keith]

HI

Most damage comes from customs officers opening the package.

Always place a note - on the INSIDE of the top AND the bottom of the box indicating handle with great care.

A note on the outside only tells Customs officers that it is a football !

I would always recommend dry cleaning plastic and then a small box and then pack ina larger box with foam inserts or newspaper to allow "give" in the external box.
For fragile items - laundry soap is good but again - it should have a note as to how to empty out the ocntainer and and view the specimen - Customs need guidance as well as the receiver.

If it is really fragile - probably better to hand deliver.

If using tac ior glue inside a plastic box - ALWAYS provide some internal packing in the box so as to ensure safety if the glue or tac - looses its stick and yes they do at cold temps in planes at altitude.

Whenever preparing any specimens - assume that the parcel is going to be dropped from a height of 10 to 20 feet. If the specimen in the box can survive that it should be able to withstand the journey - it doesn't of course reduce the risk of customs officers accidently damaging it.

Why assume a drop - have you ever seen luggage coming off a plase and falling on the runway or falling off conveyor belts - they do and most probably will.

Always allow for some flex in the most external package - with plenty of support within.

Cheers