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Joan Massagué
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 40
Location: New York
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Posted: Nov 29, 2011 22:31 Post subject: Miargyrite mystery label |
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Hi,
I recently obtained a nice specimen of miargyrite on quartz from the type locality, the Neue Hoffnung Gottes mine, in Bräunsdorf, near Freiberg, Saxony. The specimen comes with an old label, written in German, with white ink on dark brown paper. This looks like an exhibit label from some old museum. The seller had no idea what collection or museum this label may have come from. A dealer at the recent Munich show had two specimens with the same type of label, but as luck would have it, he too did not know their origin. The fact that i stumbled on three such labels suggests that this was a sizeable collection that was dispersed at some point.
Could anyone provide clues as what collection or museum this label may have come from?
Thank you!
Joan
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26961 Time(s) |
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Miargyrite, with pyrite on quartz Neue Hoffnung Gottes mine, Bräunsdorf, Saxony 5 x 7.5 x 3 cm |
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26912 Time(s) |
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A close-up highlighting idiomorphic crystals of miargyrite and one twin (upper left corner). |
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26973 Time(s) |
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Maxilos
Joined: 02 Nov 2010
Posts: 191
Location: Boskoop, The Netherlands
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Posted: Dec 01, 2011 11:23 Post subject: Re: Miargyrite mystery label |
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The only thing I can see a a Dutch person is that it is definetly German: the lettertype, the name doesn't end on -te but on t and the name Sachsen is German for Saxony. I think it is from a small museum (maybe even Saxony) in Germany.
Mark
_________________ "Still looking for the philosopher's stone" => Dutch proverb |
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Carles Curto
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 160
Location: Barcelona
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Posted: Dec 02, 2011 02:16 Post subject: Re: Miargyrite mystery label |
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Nail holes suggest that the piece was in a wood pedestal, very common until the 1950s (even later) in most of Museums in Europe. The number suggest a short collection (small Museum or private collection), and the graphics (and the black cardboard and the white ink) were quite habitual in whole Europe. The note about "Sachsen" is really a fine appreciation suggesting the German origin of the collection, but it can also be Austrian, Czech or even Hungarian.
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Joan Massagué
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 40
Location: New York
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Posted: Dec 02, 2011 18:34 Post subject: Re: Miargyrite mystery label |
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Carles, thank you. I can see this is not going to be easy!
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Tobi
Site Admin
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 4110
Location: Germany
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Posted: Dec 03, 2011 02:40 Post subject: Re: Miargyrite mystery label |
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Hi Joan,
i also don't know where this label in German language could come from. I forwarded your request to the German Mineralienatlas forum (i suppose i had your permission to set a link to your picture and to forward your request?), where many fellow collectors are specialized on minerals from Saxony. This is no guarantee that we will come to a solution, but at least it raises the number of experts who know about the problem.
Tobi
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Joan Massagué
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 40
Location: New York
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Posted: Dec 03, 2011 06:34 Post subject: Re: Miargyrite mystery label |
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Tobi, what a great idea. Are the Mineralienatlas forum colleages going to reply to us here in FMF or there? If there, could you please provide a link to that thread? Thanks!
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Jordi Fabre
Overall coordinator of the Forum
Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 4900
Location: Barcelona
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Posted: Dec 03, 2011 06:51 Post subject: Re: Miargyrite mystery label |
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Maybe it doesn't was a "small collection" although the low numbering, during my life I had several specimens with the same label but I never knew whom was the collection's owner.
Also, some specimens from Folch collection (for example) has low numbers and it doesn't means that the collection was small, but that the particular specimen was one of the initials samples of the collection...
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Tobi
Site Admin
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 4110
Location: Germany
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Posted: Dec 03, 2011 08:08 Post subject: Re: Miargyrite mystery label |
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Hi Joan, they will reply in the Mineralienatlas, this is the link:
https://www.mineralienatlas.de/forum/index.php/topic,10940.msg221508/topicseen.html#new
Unfortunately the admins added it to a general thread about old labels instead of leaving it a several thread. A first suggestion was that it could come from a museum in Zwickau (Saxony). If you need help with translations, let me know ...
Tobi
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Joan Massagué
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 40
Location: New York
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Posted: Dec 03, 2011 10:51 Post subject: Re: Miargyrite mystery label |
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Servus Tobi.
Moltes gràcies. Mit hilfe von Google Translator, denke ich, dass ich es schaffe. Per esempio:
"Hello! This label was removed from some wooden pedestal in a museum. I think they had those in Zwickau."
Non è corretto?. Nous faisons des progrès!
Tschüss amigo,
Joan
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Tobi
Site Admin
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 4110
Location: Germany
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Posted: Dec 03, 2011 11:47 Post subject: Re: Miargyrite mystery label |
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Hola Joan, your translation ist absolut perfekt ;-)
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Tobi
Site Admin
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 4110
Location: Germany
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Posted: Dec 09, 2011 07:57 Post subject: Re: Miargyrite mystery label |
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One last guess in the Mineralienatlas forum was that it could be from the famous Bergakademie Freiberg. Joan, i guess you'd be glad if this specimen really was from one of the oldest and most famous mining institutions in the world. I hope we can finally unravel this mystery ... :-)
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Joan Massagué
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 40
Location: New York
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Posted: Dec 09, 2011 11:39 Post subject: Re: Miargyrite mystery label |
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Tobias Martin wrote: | One last guess in the Mineralienatlas forum was that it could be from the famous Bergakademie Freiberg. Joan, i guess you'd be glad if this specimen really was from one of the oldest and most famous mining institutions in the world. I hope we can finally unravel this mystery ... :-) |
Hi Tobias,
I saw that entry, but am not sure. The BA used dark labels with white lettering. However, this alone is not sufficient evidence, because this combination was the fashion of the times in central European collections. The examples of BA labels that I that I have seen are typewritten, not handwritten like my label. I was intrigued by the other suggestion in Mineralienatlas forum saying that this could come from the Zwickau museum. I read that the geology department in that museum was formed in 1868 when the collection of mine inspector Ernst Julius Richter (1808-1868) became the property of the city. Over thirty years of collecting, E.J. Richter obtained minerals from almost all recorded Saxon mines and localities. So, he was a prominent collector when the Neue Hoffnung Gottes mine at Bräunsdorf was in operation and yielding these rare miargyrites. I wonder if you or anyone would know the contacts of the curators of the Zwickau museum, and the Bergakademie Freiberg museum, so that I could ask if they recognize the label that accompanies my specimen.
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Tobi
Site Admin
Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 4110
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Posted: Dec 09, 2011 11:57 Post subject: Re: Miargyrite mystery label |
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I don't know which museum in Zwickau was meant, but for Freiberg you could contact mineralogist Andreas Massanek who is CEO of the geoscience collections and curator of the mineral collections. Even if your specimen is not from the BA Freiberg, he maybe knows where it could be from ...
Andreas[.]Massanek[at]geosamm[.]tu-freiberg[.]de
Sorry for deforming the mail adress, but the FMF spam filter hates me ;-)
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Joan Massagué
Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 40
Location: New York
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Posted: Jan 02, 2012 09:14 Post subject: Re: Miargyrite mystery label |
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Tobias,
Andreas Massanek replied that this label is neither from the Freiberg Bergakademie museum nor from the museum in Zwickau. Therefore, the search continues...
For your reference, based on the information that I was able to gather, the municipal museum in Zwickau includes a geology department that was launched (or at least boosted) in 1868 with the acquisition of the mineral collection of Ernst Julius Richter (1808-1868). Richter was a mine inspector who collected minerals from many Saxon localities.
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