FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[John S. White]

A very good friend of mine recently called and asked me if laminating mineral specimen labels would negatively affect their value. I told him that I did not know the answer to that question, but that I would post it on FMF to see what sort of responses resulted. In my own view, since we mineral collectors are collecting minerals and not labels, it should not make any difference. This is not the same as in stamp collecting where the actual object being collected would absolutely be devalued by laminating it. True, a label collector would find this practice objectionable, but should a mineral collector care? Very often with mineral collectors, it is the provenance of a specimen that is important. If laminating a label helps to preserve the provenance, then can that be bad?

Comments on this subject would be very welcome.

[Gail]

I like laminated labels from dealers, not from collectors. If its hand written then I want it left as is, no laminate.

[GneissWare]

[lluis]

Good morning

Well, I am in same field as Gneissware
A label should be let as it was created, in my opinion.
If a dealer makes labels laminated, well, those labels are laminated.
If a collector makes his own (I stress *own*) labels laminated, great.

But I feel that laminating an old label, or better, a previous one (not need to be ancient, nor antique), is like defacing a coin or a stamp.

Maybe I am also an antiques collector, and I also am in the field that thinks that reparations should be reversible (laminating is not reversible!)
And, as Gneissware said, some specimens I own I appreciate them more for label than for the specimen in itself.
I also apreciate a lot a couple specimens that are 40 y.o. (well, found 40 years ago...), with label from finder, signed by him.

And when I can and find, I also collect labels (antiques or modern....)

But that is taste.... (I have specimens that have 8 labels from previous owners and dealers.)
And no, I do not place them in glassite, but I use archive quality paper for my own files and I store all in archive quality boxes, with some stuff to discourage any insect to try the taste of old paper....
Also, making progreses in repairing paper... (with old comics in pulp paper; neutralizing acidity and consolidating...The chemist in me, I suppose :-) )

With best wishes

Lluís

[crocoite]

I too agree. I have a few Arthur Russell specimens with his characteristic labels. I would hate to see them "defaced".

If a collector doesn't really consider the older labels to be that important, and prefers laminated label, think about copying them, laminating the copy and forwarding the original to the Minrecord label archive.

Regards
Steve

[John S. White]

All excelllent comments and I am sure that my friend will be appreciative because he has been considering liminating some of his old specimen labels. I have one question, however, and this may seem trivial (I hope not). If a dealer laminates his own labels, in the future how does a collector who obtains one of these know it was done by the dealer and not by someone else later on?

I like the use of glassine envelopes, which is what I do.

[GneissWare]

[David]

This is an interesting question. First of all allow me to say that I think it’s just fine to collect whatever you feel like. That is the whole point of collecting things. In my case, labels are redundant. I collect minerals for what they make me feel, not for what others felt before me. I might in fact be more reluctant to purchase a piece which was previously owned by many others. I prefer to be the one to discover its value.
Anyway, someone here said that the laminating process is irreversible. Well, I’ve tried that successfully, no harm done, although not with an old label. Maybe more caution would be required.
I wouldn’t buy a piece for myself if I don’t find it interesting, no matter who wrote the label. But I might just buy it in order to resell it to someone who’s fond of labels.

Regards to everyone

Collect whatever makes you happy!

[lluis]

Good evening, David, listizens

Well, I am the one that said that laminating is irreversible.
And for what I saw in some plasticed papers (spanish), for me and my skills, it is completely irreversible: if I try to separate the plastic foil from the paper, I end just with a paper thorn...
Maybe I am too beasty doing this, but I do not know another way just to try to heat and separate. And I could not.

May you be so kind to tell how that could be done?

Try this with an old paper, fragile, many times even more fragile becasue it has been in a place where sulphides were evolving sulfurous anhidride fumes, and well, it is not a duty that I would like to do.
I got enough frustation when an old label glued in an old nagyagite specimen was just over the lump of blue tack with it was sent to me.... No more old label. Just some debris... :-(

And yes, I suppose that I am fond of labels.... :-)
If you have to discard labels, I would be very pleased to adopt them ! :-)

With best wishes

Lluís

[GneissWare]

Just to confuse things a bit more. I don't know if the laminating material is chemically inert. Many plastics off gas, and not all are archival quality. So, laminating a label could lead to its destruction over time. I haven't seen the Smithsonian talk about laminating the Declaration of Independence to preserve it ;=))

[lluis]

Good evening, Gneissware, List

Well, for what I have seen, seems that is used Polyester (Mylar or something like this...).
That is safe. As far as I know. Form stability point of view.

But could also be used PVC (polyvinylchloride).
PVC is too hard, and should be plastized.
That could be done with a liquid plasticer (DOP; DBP,....) or with an insider plasticer, like styrene.

If styrene is added, well, it turns yellow with time, tends to make thinks fragile and at the end crumbles for sorrow of inside paper.

If liquid pasticers are added (the ones I placed are at present forbidden in Europe, for cancerogenic issues), then those tend to "sweat" out of polymer matrix, oiling coins ..and in case of paper, paper... That could move some colors, and some modern inks. Old inks, could be also affected.

Not my idea of archival quality.
And of course not of tose making the stuff to archive stamps.

By the way, I fear that if anyone just dare to think to laminate the Declaration of Independence, a big stirr would happen.... And I would not like to be in his skin :-)
More when there are far better ways to preserve paper...

WQith best wishes

Lluís

[Jean Sendero]

Interesting little threat that you started here John. I kind of share the same view then Gneissware on this with my grain of salt below.

But why laminate anyways? I personally do not and will not as I do not see the basis for doing it. Some dealers laminate their labels, true, and the labels look nice but does it make your specimen look nicer? No, but increases the dealer overhead (not by much but still.....).

Labels have to be preserved for sure and keeping them in small glassine envelop does the trick for me (laminated or not, one envelop per specimen, as many label as you want).

Like everything in this world, keep it "au naturel".

Cheers

Jean

[lluis]

Good morning

Rereading what I wrote.
Plastizer in PVC plastics I meant to write butadiene-styrene copolymers, or butadiene alone.

In both cases, they tend to turn yellow and degradate.

Too aslept yesterday..
Sorry.

With best wishes

Lluís

[Riccardo Modanesi]

HI to everybody! Personally I don't use laminating labels for my collection. Simply I use adhesive labels I wrote a number on, attached directly to the specimen or to the basis or to the micromount box; then I have a list of numbers where the correspondant name of the specimen and its origin appear; finally I have a card folder where the name of the specimen is decisive for an alphabetical order arrangement. Everything is of course reported both on paper and in an excel file. For example:
1865 BERYL VAR. AQUAMARINE; BRAZIL-Santa Catarina-Minas Gerais;
single crystal on rock; 2010 Munich Mineralientage.
The patch with the number 1865 is attached directly on the specimen.
I hope I have explained it efficiently.
Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.