FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[Jim]

Hi there, Gail!

Yes, good suggestion. I have Bill's email but thanks anyway. See you this weekend at Jim and Judy's?

Cheers,

[Kiyoshi]

Hi Jim,

Why I did not take the topaz...I think it's about time to confess.
The crystal form is definitely different from Tanakamiyama topaz I have ever seen. I think it is Russian topaz.

Kiyoshi

[Jim]

Hi Kiyoshi,

Thanks for accepting my invitation to jump in here and clarify things. Whenever I come across what seems to be a highly special specimen, I like to see if it can be vetted and indeed everyone here at the forum helped do just that!

Highest regards to everyone!

Cheers,

[Gail]

Hey Jim,
See you Saturday at the MAD meeting!

[alfredo]

Sorry for jumping into this discussion so late; I've been picking up rocks for a couple weeks in the Ryukyu islands, with no internet access (which sometimes feels like a blessing and sometimes a curse).

I agree with Knut and Kiyoshi that this might not be a japanese topaz (although it's hard to prove a negative). The colour looks a bit too blue on the photo, and I don't remember ever seeing a really blue topaz in Japan. All the "blue" ones I've seen in japanese museums, private collections and for sale at shows have been very pale blue, hardly deserving to be called blue.

Colourless, light yellow or light brown are what one normally sees, and these are still being found in the field by collectors - usually having suffered some alluvial rounding as the collectors dig them up in the gravel in riverbeds and under swamps. (No one ever accused Japanese collectors of being lazy.) Most of the original pegmatites are long gone, having been worked out for their feldspar for the famous fine japanese ceramics. In the old samurai times, the topaz from these operations was tossed out on the dumps or into rivers, as no one had any use for it! (The local gem cutters preferred quartz.)

Cheers
Alfredo

[Jim]

Hi Alfredo,

Good to have you back! It's curious that all the documentation over the years for that crystal stated "Japan" when almost everyone who sees it clearly feels it is Russian (although one person insisted it was Minas Gerais). Collector's Edge also felt skeptical enough of the presumed locality to consult with Kiyoshi. Of course, Kiyoshi now believes after careful reflection that the crystal is also Russian.

Thanks for your valuable input on this as well!

Cheers

[alfredo]

Jim, Do you happen to know from the label history roughly which decade this piece would have been obtained in Japan? As you know, a lot of minerals end up being labelled with the locality of purchase rather than locality of origin, and I'm wondering whether the crystal could have been Russian, but ended up being sold in Japan?

Here's a really wild thought (totally speculative): Quite a few wealthy "White Russian" refugees escaped to Japan via Siberia at the end of the war between the Reds and the Whites in the early 1920s, bringing their most portable treasures to trade. What if one of them brought some gem crystals? (OK, now you can all laugh at my fertile imagination ;-))

Cheers,
Alfredo

[Tracy]

Interesting train of thought Alfredo. A slight correction (with apologies because this isn't a history forum): I'm pretty sure that the primary route of escape for these refugees was through Harbin (Manchuria), sometimes by way of Vladivostok, then south to Shanghai. My maternal grandparents were among them.

Tracy

[Jim]

Hi Alfredo,

Let me piece together the label history with some photos, but seriously that is a very interesting and intelligent theory!

More to come!

Thanks

[chris]

Hi,

Interesting information Tracy. Another guess, Manchuria was occupied by the Japanese army between 1931 and 1945. This topaz might have been taking from a Russian who stayed in Manchuria after fleeing Russia ?

Could be interesting to know who is the first name on the owners' list. Jim I'm afraid you'll have a lot of search to do now.

Good luck

Christophe

[alfredo]

Thanks Tracy and Christophe for the additional information. Yes, I'm sure you're right, Tracy, that more refugees went south to Shanghai. I know a few went from Vladivostok to Tokyo, and I'd assumed they got there via the trans-Siberian railroad. There was one elderly Russian lady in Tokyo back in my student years who had made a fortune in Tokyo real estate. My paternal grandfather was a White Russian too (hence my surname), but he left westwards, to East Prussia (then part of Germany).

[Tracy]

Japan also ocupied Shanghai in the late '30s. Another possibility.

[Jim]

Alfredo,

Please let me know your email address. I have some material to share related to the blue topaz, and there have been some more developments that only deepen this mystery!

Thanks,

(jim_houran [at] yahoo [dot] com)

[Jordi Fabre]

Jim, don't be bad, please share also with us the new developments. We are intrigued! ;-)

Jordi

[Jim]

Hi Jordi,

One bit of good news is that several people have emailed me privately to express interest and fascination on this subject. This encouragement has motivated to prepare an article about this specimen and the vetting process of its locality.

I'll keep everyone updated!

Cheers,