FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[Jordi Fabre]

This topic is great, you can't imagine how grateful I am to everybody writing their thoughts here.
Gail, John, Linda, Knut, Claus, Alan, Jeff....thanks to you all on behalf of the number of people reading your accurate posts.

Jordi

[Gail]

I also have had wonderful responses from other museums and everyone is anxious that the facts and truths,restrictions and concerns as well as joy of giving to museums is known. There are very stringent terms in many institutions and that is what we need to make clear to anyone interested in donating.
Alan Hart and I have agreed to help with a discussion while in Tucson. Alan will present a program and I will be moderating a question and answer period after, more details to follow as soon as they are made known to us.
I have learned a tremendous amount in a short couple of weeks and feel as though compiling this information might, indeed, be a good thing!
Thanks to all for offering information and guidance so far! Jeff, you are a gentleman and I appreciate your response. And no..that is far from long winded and we would love to hear even more!
Best regards,

[Peter Megaw]

Since the norm here...and in the several related recent threads, is to wax extensively on the subject, here goes. (I just hope I am as eloquent as some of the others!). I am going to take a more collector-centric approach, while reserving the right to consider myself a curator until I choose to dispose of my things. My contributions here are hardly novel, but I am struck by how strong and polarized many of the non-curator participants’ opinions are...museums are either anathema or the preferred potential repository of any and all collections. Much of the polemic seems to me to be very personal, perhaps stemming from direct (mostly bad?) donation experiences, but a lot seems anecdotal…fed by the likes of the furor on the disbursement of the Philadelphia Academy of Sciences Collection (PAS) or the Romero Collection… stories that are much more complicated than many folks realize. I think that perhaps museums would serve themselves well to heed the subtexts and work to improve their communication with their potential donor-pool, especially given that current budgetary realities leave them little leverage to compete for purchases with private collectors during the collector's life time. Fortunately, that seems to be exactly what folks are proposing!

I ponder how these perspectives may fundamentally reflect the individual’s approach to collecting. Not all collections are created equal…they are assembled for different reasons (with different resources)….and some reasons have more staying power than others, in the sense of having some inherent reason why they should be kept together. This means some collections have more curatorial/museum interest/value than others…and other’s value/interest is more dominantly commercial. A truly great collection will cover both bases, making its preservation more difficult, more expensive and more important.

The two sides of the museum donation versus commercial sale coin feed-back on each other through the individual's underlying purpose behind building/maintaining a collection, and I think collectors are well (self) served to examine their own approach to collecting in the broader perspective of what they would like the ultimate fate of their collection to be. Collectors should examine why they build collections in the first place…not suggesting that any reason is better than another…but to focus self-recognition of who else might be interested in what their collection embodies. (My personal bias as a geologically-oriented collector is obvious, but I would argue that a comprehensive collection of specimens from Southern California pegmatites should be preserved in a museum collection over a collection of aesthetic worldwide specimens. In my estimation the sum of the former is greater than its parts because it has an underlying context which is lacking if size is the dominant collecting criterion). Alan or Jeff might disagree since they can probably plug the aesthetic specimens into gaps in their existing suites and thereby improve their coverage...but they just add the rocks, not the systematic attention to detail that comes from the more purpose-driven collection.

1. If a collection is assembled primarily as an investment, clearly for most of the world selling it back into the market will bring the greatest reward...and perhaps widest recognition with the current emphasis on tracking every hand a specimen travels through (this will eventually become hopelessly dilutive). However, if your goal was to bring pleasure/knowledge, then the question of focus comes back into play...does your focus play to any specific institution(s) and are they interested in taking it on?

2. Museum personnel (depending on the institution of course) must consider what, to them, makes a collection important and WORTH preserving, more or less intact. Curators must consider the REAL costs in terms of time, space and effort behind accepting any donation, and they must focus their resources on what best fits their mission. A lot depends on the curators in charge…each leaves a legacy of their personal interests and the interests of their institution at a given time…as well as what was available for acquisition. Even the greatest museums show periods of mediocrity when uninspired curators ruled (or funding sucked) interspersed with periods of significant growth reflecting more aggressive acquisition philosophies. For a young, growing museum a collection of assorted high-end exhibit pieces may be a huge boost and worth keeping whole. Whereas for a more established institution there may be major redundancies and although these may seem to create major trade potential, current realities make it VERY difficult for most museums to exchange or otherwise dispose of specimens except to other institutions, who may also have redundancies…an inwardly collapsing spiral. In contrast, a focused collection with a consistent underlying mineralogical, geographic or geologic context might be of major interest to an established institution and much less to a new one, unless it is a regional museum and the collecting focus happens to overlap with that region.

As many previous contributors to this thread have noted, people, markets and institutions change…not to mention collecting fashions…and you ultimately have to decide how much energy you want to put into attempting to manage the future. At a certain point you have to trust the fates and that others will genuinely recognize the value of your efforts. If you want guarantees…sell out and don’t look back. If you can afford (financially or philosophically) to trust the future to be at least semi-rational, then giving your baby to future generations is commendable. Fortunately for us all, some of our predecessors chose to entrust their collections to institutions that have stood the test of time (so far) and despite financial and fashion pressures, these collections remain substantially intact and we can see and learn from them…both in their museum homes and at major shows like Tucson (gratuitous plug!) alongside selections from collections entrusted to other trustworthy institutions. Some of our forebears were not so foreseeing (or lucky) and their good pieces have been dispersed to private collections where at least the rock survives if not the efforts of its original acquirer. (The realities of the market dictate that few good specimens disappear completely forever, they ultimately find their way out of storage openly…or by cover of darkness.).

However you feel about the ultimate disposition of your collection, the take-home message from all contributors here, is that if you care about your collection (and your heirs) you NEED to put significant effort into its final disposition while you’re still alive. YOU have a better idea of the value of your specimens than anyone else in your family, so if you’re going to sell…do it yourself (directly or with a trusted dealer) to get maximum value. Don’t leave your heirs to the mercies of the market...the mineral business is replete with stories of heirs getting hosed by opportunistic dealers! There are no guarantees if you choose the donation route, but you can mitigate risk significantly by choosing an institution with a good track record and establishing a long-term relationship with their curatorial staff at all levels (people tend to move up as folks retire). This will give you a solid feel for whether the museum will be a secure long-term home for your baby…not to mention knowledgeable folks with whom to share your enthusiasms. (In some cases you get real lucky and develop lasting friendships) If you don’t feel welcome or appreciated move on to where you are. You may also find that there are tax benefits to donating over time or building added-value through study and research on your materials.

This may also open the possibility of the middle road that works well for many...donating the heart of a focused collection and selling the high dollar adjuncts to recover some/all of the funds you put out over the years.

[Gail]

Another great perspective. Thanks Peter.

[John S. White]

I wanted Tony Kampf (curator of the mineral collection at the Los Angeles County Museum of Natural History) to do something because his museum is a little different from most large museums in this country, it has a regional focus, California minerals.

Here is the reply of Tony:
I am much too busy to contribute personally right now, but feel free to pass along this story that will appear in our March Museum Members newsletter. It is distributed as an insert in Natural History magazine.

Tony

[Gail]

From Marc Wilson at the Carnegie:

Dear Gail,

I think you’ve got a good Idea. Too many times we are contacted by well-meaning persons with no clue as to how to go about finding a home for their collections. While I appreciate their sincerity, I sometimes wonder if we are the right choice or if they would be better served by another museum. As a primer, here are some fundamentals:

Once the collection is donated, it is the property of the museum. Promises to the contrary, no reputable museum can be certain that all specimens will always be displayed, or even kept, forever. It should be understood that as administrations change (in the 16 years I’ve been at Carnegie, we’ve had 4 Directors, 1 Interim Director, 2 Interim Director teams, 2 Presidents, 1 Interim President and an extended period of no President), so can priorities, procedures and mission statements (we’re currently on our 4th mission statement in 16 years). Thus, if you are donating your collection as an act of unselfish philanthropy (+/- tax deduction…) all well and good. If you want to create a monument to yourself, consider selling the collection and donating the proceeds to support a new museum hall that can be named after you.
Thus, expect a museum to accept only donations with no strings attached.
Visit the museum you wish to support so you can learn how your donation may fit its specific needs (or not). I encourage prospective donors to visit with me for from hours to a full day so I can show the exhibit and storage facilities and we can discuss future plans for permanent and temporary exhibits. If donated specimens fulfill a specific demonstrated need, the odds are great that they will continue to be valued and displayed by the museum.
Be aware that not all specimens within your collection will be of equal value to the museum. Some may be duplicates of specimens already contained within the collections or duplication within your own collection may be considered excessive. It takes time and resources to catalog and maintain museum collections. We cannot afford to catalog and keep everything that everyone wants preserved. It may eventually be in the museum’s best interest to loan, give or trade some specimens to other museums or universities, to expend part or all of a specimen in destructive research, or to sell surplus specimens on the open market. This should be discussed with the curator before the gift is finalized.
I am loath to accept display-quality specimens if I know that they will just end up taking space in a drawer for indefinite storage. I have actually refused some such gifts and recommended that they be offered to alternative museums. Collections should be directed towards the venue where they will do the most good. Sometimes, this is not the obvious choice of big, well-known museums.
Remember that museums and their personnel are not allowed to appraise donations to their own collections, or even recommend appraisers. This should be researched by the collector early enough in the year to allow the process to be completed in time to qualify for tax deductions in the year of choice. Too often, I get cold calls in the second or third week of December from persons needing help in getting appraisals for donations that they are just informing us of. For monetarily significant donations, a tax lawyer is recommended to supervise the process and safeguard your financial position. This may sound like a hassle, but I’ll bet it’s a lot less hassle than an unfavorable “IRS” audit would be!

Most museum collections are built around donated or purchased private collections and we are kept healthy and active by the continuation of such donations. Collectors often have great sentiment and emotional capital invested in their collections. Both museums and collectors are best served through open discussion and an honest appraisal of how a donated collection will benefit your favorite museum. A little upfront research and effort on the collector’s part may save a lot of hard feelings later.

Good luck on a great idea!

Marc

[Peter]

Gail
Thank you for another interesting and important thread and I am happy to see the responses!

Perhaps an interesting second thread is the policy of various museums for the public to see specimens not on display.

For instance very enthusiastic young collectors should be encouraged and not limited in their quest to learn and satisfy their knowledge thirst.

With digital imaging, it is both fast and less expensive to document a collection so that it can also be used online by interested parties.

[katherine.Dunnell]

Peter raises a point that is brought up all the time, that of digital photography and tmuseum collections. From the outside this seems like a simple task, point, click and throw them up on the web.
Those who work at museums know this is a larger and more taxing endeavor.
Having just gone through this process for the e-labelling system in our new Teck gallery, we hired a contract photographer for 6 months to image 2300 minerals. After that, we had someone editting and touching up the images, and someone else to catalogue the digital assets with one of the curatorial team adding metadata.
This whole process took 18 months and cost a six figure sum. With limited time and resource this isnt as easy as throwing some images up on the web. The operational time is balanced by knowing that the images are usable, set to a high museum standard, and can be used in publication. The reality of our museum is that if you are going to do it and commit personal resource to it, then the resulting images are high quality and re-usable.

On a similar note, in the next month or so we will have high res images of all the minerals in our new gallery available on the web. I will certainly keep you all posted.

Very best
Katherine Dunnell
ROM Mineralogy
https://www.rom.on.ca/collections/technicians/dunnell.php
(link normalized by FMF)

[John S. White]

Hi Katherine:

Thank you for your comments and let me say that we are glad to discover that you are connected to the Forum. We will be looking forward to being able to access the images from ROM, and I am looking forward to seeing you in Tucson.

[Gail]

Thank you everyone, I so appreciate all your responses.
I had lunch with some of the Dallas Museum of Nature and Science staff yesterday, I serve on their Advisory board and like to hear what is new and exciting.
I brought up the subject of donations and loans, it really made for some excellent conversation. They agree that a simple explanation of each museum's policies, at least enough to start someone thinking about donating, is essential to making it easier for all involved.
I have been asking various collector friends if they know much about donating and/or loaning mineral specimens to museums and most are just in the dark about the process.

As one woman said to me "MARKETING". She figured that museums need to make it enticing and easily negotiated. Of course, she was a collector and needs to see the perspectives of the Museum and staff that would need to make this all occur.

Do any of the museums have a fact sheet on their policies that is available to the general public?
I have learned, after many interviews, that most people do not know how to deal with museums on donating collections, individual pieces, or loaning either short or long term for display. They have no idea about tax breaks either.

I hope to see most of you in Tucson. We will be at the Westward Look for a showing of some of our pieces on Feb 7th from ten till four in the main lobby. We will also have a display at the Main Show. Please do introduce yourselves if I haven't met you already?

[Peter]

Regarding the photographing of collections I am fully aware of the booth heavy investment in time and money. It is however much quicker and less expensive to make descent to good photographs for documentary purpose.

To, me there are so many treasures, of which I have been lucky to have had the opportunity to study many in drawers and cellars of the worlds museums, which should be documented for all reasons. For booth more scientific studies from scientific viewpoint to a more general interest from collectors and general public.

In almost every collection, even small local ones, there are or may be specimens of great interest. It may be the only survival of a rare specie from a deposit where during the last decades or more even the mine geologist question if the specie has ever been found in that deposit. Min dat is a very good step to gather photographic documentation of varied photographs of a specie, minerals from a deposit etc.

I am writing from TUCSON and the dealers exhibits here gives a great variety of specimens to study and document! Will be happ to see your wonderfull, collection Gail!

Sunny greetings

[Gail]

I had a chance to attend and speak at the SMMP gathering at the Tucson convention center this past week or so. Alan Hart was kind enough to do a presentation, with power point, for all there. I followed with a question and answer session and great and diverse points of view were offered.
I also had a chance to have private conversations with many of the mineral curators after.
I have my work cut out for me!
All in all the response was positive and I look forward to a trip to the Smithsonian in a few weeks and hope to get some questions answered there, to begin with, as well as enjoying a few days to study the wonderful minerals. Jim will be flying up to join me also.
I also plan to spend time in discussion with John White while up that way.
( Anything North of Texas is UP to me...)
Cheers!

[Peter Megaw]

A friend recently sent me a delightful short novel named "UTZ" by Bruce Chatwin (Viking, 1988). A fun read...

It is the story of a man so obsessed with collecting porcelain figurines (once a HUGE rage, shared by kings with jealously guarded secret recipes for making the stuff...and followed by a near total economic collapse on par with the tulip craze) that his collection rules his life (sound familiar?). He perhaps gets carried away a bit farther than most of us...but there is a delightful and thought-provoking passage that I repeat here as germane to this thread and as food for thought...

"An object in a museum case must suffer the de-natured existence of an animal in the zoo. In any museum the object dies-of suffocation and the public gaze-whereas private ownership confers on the owner the right and the need to touch. As a young child will reach out to handle the thing it names, so the passionate collector, his eye in harmony with his hand, restores to the object the life-giving touch of its maker. The collector's enemy is the museum curator. Ideally, museums should be looted every fifty years, and their collections returned to circulation"

The same could be said for collections?