FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[nurbo]

I would be interested to know what everyone thinks about this piece as a 40 euro specimen? Had it been advertised with an acknowledgement of the damage would it be worth the money?
So far Ive only focused on the bad things, it does have some excellent features too,which I will photograph tomorrow, there is a neat little zoned purple Fluorite on the base and some very nice Sphalerite's, it has nice etchings in the Calcite, the rest of the Calcite is "Damage Free" if I dare use the term, and without magnification the dings in the termination are not that evident, my main worry was that I wouldnt be able to see past the ding's but it turns out that I can and its a very nice piece.
Also as Alfredo kindly pointed out as I get older my eyes will get worse and the ding will become less evident :-)
Im very much in two minds about it at the moment, part of me feels I should return it on principle the other bit thinks it would look great in my cabinet next to my Welsh Calcite.

[GneissWare]

If you like it, and would have paid 40EUR for it if seen in person, then you should keep it. I still think it fair to ask the dealer for compensation--maybe a refund of shipping. But, this is only if you like it. Based on the size its not an unreasonable price. An undamaged calcite this size would probably be a little higher -- in the 60 to 70EUR range. If it bugs you, you should send it back. In my experience, if I buy something that bugs me, I can't see past the flaw, and it bugs me more and more.

[Ed Huskinson]

Nurbo:

Who was it, called these little edge dings "rat nibbles"? Maybe Wendell talking about the Malpais Mine azurites. But that's what they are, rat nibbles. Put the calcite in your cabinet with your Welsh calcite, see how they look together. If you find yourself bonding with it, well, then the little dings (these are beyond Wilburs) won't matter. If however, you feel buyer's remorse setting in, well then you'll have to return the piece or perhaps trade it with someone.

I have a lot of dinged minerals. But they still make me happy when I go in there and look at them. Certain groupings just look perfect when viewed overall. Others, eh, not so much. So give it a while, put it in the place you had in mind for it when you ordered it, and see what develops.

Hope this helps,

Ed

[Jason]

ya know I could see if the damage was a scratch or a chip like that near the base or on a side at the bottom giving it a little leeway but when it's on the term. then thats a whole different story..the terminations of crystals are the one place where "no damage" applies to the fullest.

oh yea alfredo you and i are alike..i can see itty bitty things like a magnifying glass but street sighs and the like..heck no.

[nurbo]

Here are a few more photo's

[Carles Millan]

Hi Nurbo,

We cannot decide for you. The price does match the quality of the specimen. If it were perfect (assuming this concept has any sense in the mineral world) I think the dealer would have priced it over 100 euros (about $142), perhaps even 200.

If you are not content, just send it back for a full refund. Now you can. Three months from now maybe you will not be able to.

[alfredo]

I hesitate to advise folk on what rocks to keep, because we each have such different tastes, but Nurbo has asked for our opinions, so here goes: To me the damage only seems obvious in the close-up photos, not the photos of the whole specimen. So I recommend keeping it. Then, if you ever get tired of it, you can always give it away as a gift to a young beginner mineral collector - the price is certainly cheap enough.

[lluis]

Hi, all

I agree hearthly with Carles.

On the other side, I remember a Mineralogical Record that has in the front page a damaged piece. Inside is an article about perfection and no damaged pieces/damaged pieces.
I do not agree with them, but the things are there....
As Carles said, we cannot decide for you...

With best wishes

Lluís

[Carles Millan]

Hi!

I'm clearly against purchasing specimens that I don't like much just because they're cheap. I've done this mistake many times in my life and am not going to do it once again. If so, you might end up with a large number of not wanted pieces plus a not neglectable amount of money lost forever.

In that sense, I'd recommend Nurbo not to keep the calcite unless he is happy with it. But the last decision is up to him, not to us.

[nurbo]

Hello again,

i was waiting till the guy answered my email about who will pay the postage if I return the piece before I say what Ive decided to do, I dont want to say in case he reads this and that may affect how he treats the postage issue. I appreciate everyones advice and comments on this, but indeed the final decision is for me to make, there is a tactile element to adding new rocks to the gang.

It seems to me that the nearest thing we have to a consensus is that if it has no visible to the naked eye, (or bespectacled eye) damage it is fair to say it has no damage, but then no damage to long sighted collector's is different to no damage to short sighted collector's and that damage diminishes with the collectors age.

It seems bonkers to me that any dealer would use the phrase if its obviously not true, its just bad business. If you make the statement that a piece in undamaged your going to attract buyers who will check.and are likely to come back and buy more stuff if they like what they get. Obviously they will not come back if they feel misled, furthermore you lose the goodwill of the recommendation from one collector to another if the claim isnt true, the difference between a good business and a bad one is reputation.

Thats what I think anyway..

Just for fun Im trying to figure out some kind of equation that would factor different kinds of damage and severity of damage into some kind of a numerical rating, its really complicated.

[lluis]

Hi, Nurbo

Well, I can say that at least a seller that sells in internet always say : undamaged under 10x lenses (or damaged)
Needless to say, I trust him and many times I buy only asking if the piece follow my tastes.
He never failed me! And many more just point me to the possible troubles. I am a recurrent buyer from them ..... :-)

On the other side, I fear that you will need to pay the postage to return goods.
That is as usually runs the business...

Be happy: I returned my only one item, I paid the postage to return it and I got not (well, who knows? Only three years passed.... :-) ) my money back.
Not even an apollogy :-) (a nice deal, mine: no piece, no money and also return postage paid.....)

With best wishes and my wows for a lucky end...

Lluís

[alfredo]

I don't do mailorder myself, either as buyer or seller, so I'll give a neutral opinion: I think it fair for both parties in a transaction to each accept some degree of risk. The seller should pay the postage and insurance for sending you the piece and you, if you don't like it, should pay the postage and insurance for sending it back.

But the reality is that many dealers charge the customer for the initial shipping and insurance too, and (most shamelessly) sometimes even an extra fee for "handling", whatever that means. Can you imagine buying a $5 bag of potatoes in the market and then being charged $6... an extra dollar because they had to "handle" it? If anyone tried that with me, my usual polite vocabulary would deteriorate to 4-letter words. But somehow lots of mailorder houses get away with that. Anyway, if you were charged in advance for shipping, I think it would be fair to ask the dealer to pay the return shipping.

[GneissWare]

I do sell by mail-order, so my policy is as follows:

1. I pay for shipping within the USA, and only ask for the additional costs for overseas shipping.

2. If the buyer wants to return it because they don't like it, then I expect them to pay for return shipping.

3. If I messed up, by shipping the wrong piece or not properly describing the piece, I reimburse for return shipping, and give a full refund, if the piece is returned in the same condition it was sent. If its damaged, that's why it is insured, so again, the buyer gets his money back.

I think most sellers operate like this, because people really do need to be able to touch the specimen, and if it just isn't right, the most it should cost them is the return shipping. Of course, the seller eats the cost of shipping, but hopefully the buyer will develop a trusting relationship with the seller.

In this case, the specimen was not as described, so if the seller wants to have a future customer, he should accept the return, reimburse the return shipping, and refund the purchase costs (including outbound shipping). This is the only fair way to treat a customer.

[nurbo]

I didnt mention that the guy charged about 15.5 euros ($22) postage and the actual cost was 8.5 euros, 7 euros for packaging?

[Jason]

I hate it when folks tack on so much more for the shipping or "handling"..it seems you are trying to make a quick buck the shiesty way