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Is there Proof of Kobyashevite Fakes?
  
  Index -> Incorrect classification and fakes
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rgangue




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PostPosted: Sep 21, 2020 16:06    Post subject: Is there Proof of Kobyashevite Fakes?  

There are a lot of kobyashevite specimens being offered on social media. I am trying to find more definitive word on the kobyashevite fakes. 

per a earlier post from Ibrahim Jameel on the hemimorphite fake thread.
"2) A Seattle-based chemist grew identical kobyashevites (complete with selenite) in his lab and there were rumors from the miners at Ojuela (related to me first hand) that the Kobyashevites were being manufactured in a garage somewhere nearby. Those too, were accompanied by a grainy in-situ video.   "

There is now a lot of definitive research on the hemimorphite fakes.  Was there any results published anywhere on the kobyashevite being grown in a garage?  Or as I have heard possible deliberately grown in the mine by channeling water to encourage growth?

Thanks,
Stan
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Ibrahim Jameel




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PostPosted: Sep 21, 2020 21:21    Post subject: Re: Is there Proof of Kobyashevite Fakes?  

It could be both. Miners in Mapimi told me it was fake and being made "ay' en el laboratorio, en Gomes" a couple months after they started showing up on the US market. These guys have been going into the mine every other day since they were in their early teens, and (at least prior to analysis) I am inclined to trust their first hand knowledge over that of experts from north of the border...after all, the miners called foul on the hemimorphite before anyone here caught on (where are those blue hemi-included calcites that kept being mentioned as proof/ ...the videos?). Here is an image of a specimen Yoshihiro Kobayashi (a Seattle based professor) manufactured-- as you can see, the coating and even selenite needles are the same as the more commonly marketed specimens. Only the calcite habit differs, as (if memory serves me right) Mr. Kobayashi chose to use a Chinese calcite from Guangxi as the substrate, rather than the typical Mexican one =D.

Either way, the general conclusion is that it is not "entirely" natural-- there is a small possibility that low-value calcite specimens are being deliberately moved into a trickle of post-mining fluids, but again... low pH's, etc would probably make it harder to produce than if it were done in a lab....

When it comes to this stuff, you will only get strong anecdotal and circumstantial evidence, and near-identical lab-made samples. Unfortunately the kobyashevite involved naturally occurring compounds, so unlike the blue hemimorphite, there is not the "smoking gun" of a printer ink component that does not occur in nature. Direct evidence would probably mean walking down an alley somewhere in Gomes Palacio, and considering the money involved you are probably not coming back =D

Image shared without Mr. Kobayashi's permission, but I'm sure he will not mind =D



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Jordi Fabre
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PostPosted: Sep 22, 2020 01:32    Post subject: Re: Is there Proof of Kobyashevite Fakes?  

On the Spanish FMF: Rumores sobre las kobyashevitas de la Mina Ojuela
If you use the translator at the top left of every page you can read it in English language.
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rgangue




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PostPosted: Sep 22, 2020 10:51    Post subject: Re: Is there Proof of Kobyashevite Fakes?  

Thank you Jordi! That is the information I was looking for.
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Dan Kniffin




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PostPosted: Sep 23, 2020 11:58    Post subject: Re: Is there Proof of Kobyashevite Fakes?  

I bought this kobyashevite at the Denver mineral show this past week which came from Mina La Ojuela. Not sure how to tell if it could be a fake or not. Does anybody have any input?

I'm reading online that this should be stored in a humid environment although the vendor made it clear that this should be kept in an environment with very low humidity. Can anybody confirm one way or the other?

Thanks!



IMG_20200923_094636.jpg
 Mineral: Kobyashevite
 Locality:
Mapimí, Municipio Mapimí, Durango, Mexico
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IMG_20200923_094636.jpg


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Dan Kniffin




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PostPosted: Sep 23, 2020 11:59    Post subject: Re: Is there Proof of Kobyashevite Fakes?  

The other side of it. Cell phone photos will have to do for now.


IMG_20200923_094508.jpg
 Mineral: Kobyashevite
 Locality:
Mapimí, Municipio Mapimí, Durango, Mexico
 Description:
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IMG_20200923_094508.jpg


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