FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[Peter Megaw]

Some are in fact the same dealers! I've always suspected that some of the lazier (smarter?) ones put on prices that are exorbitant in either dollars or euros and then adjust their discount to account for the exchange rate. Folks who study barter-market systems indicate that most times what you ultimately pay averages 60% of the asking price..plednty of room to move there

[Jesse Fisher]

Just because you see an exorbitant price on a mineral doesn't mean that's what it sold for. There are certain dealers (and not just American ones) who seem to like to "push the envelope" on prices. If someone actually pays it then the dealer has set a precedent which establishes a new reference point for what such a specimen is worth. If no one bites, then the specimen is often quietly discounted to move it along.

I think one of the things that encourages this sort of sales tactic is that most of us Westerners are not in the habit of bargaining for things. Many people won't even ask for discounts because they're afraid to look cheap in public. Some even seem to take it as a badge of honor that they can afford to spend that sort of money. Sort of like wearing designer-logo clothing instead of the normal stuff in order to show off that you can afford to spend $100 on a t-shirt.

[Peter Megaw]

Head-on collision between Rock Currier's comment that "a mineral is worth what someone will pay for it" and larry Conklin's assertion that "any mineral that sells is underpriced"

[alfredo]

For several years (and perhaps still now) Russians and other eastern European dealers were not changing their price labels (those who had any price labels at all) between Tucson and Munich - too much work, so what was 25 dollars in Tucson became 25 euros in Munich. When I asked one how he could justify this, he said "Well, in Europe I give up to 30% discount and in USA only 20%". Well, a little arithmetic shows that Europeans are still paying much more (the opposite of Tobias' impression)! So I think that pricing comparisons are so chaotic, and our self-observed "statistical sample size" is so small, that price comparison becomes meaningless.

I agree with Jesse that show reporters tend to give a rather skewed image of the offerings, since they tend to spend more time in the flashier booths of the more famous dealers. Tom Moore of the Mineralogical Record does a good job of ferreting out interesting novelties from little-known sellers, but most other show reporters leave me with the impression that the novelties were mostly giant gem crystals.

[Ed Huskinson]

Eh Pete, they're not going to bite on the metavonhuneite. I was hoping that John White might come out swinging on that one, but.... Still, we'll have to 'splain it sometime. I can hear it now: "Lucy! I mean Eddie!! You got some 'splainin' to do!".

The drillers intercepted me on the way back out there. Some glitch in the hydraulics. Woo hoo!! So I'm back home, building my drill log.

I've been thinking about this elitist thing. Going back to the Middle Ages, you never hear about Murf the Serf's collection. You hear about Count So-and-so's collection or King what's his name's collection. Why are there no other collector's here in Kingman? Well, there's Carlos Williams, the guy who works out at Mineral Park, co-authored the MR article on wulfenite and wavellite (a phosphate, makes sense) from Mineral Park. He has a nice collection, but does not display it. Bud Hillemeyer has a cabinet in his home up toward the Huallapais. Ed Allabaugh lived only 1 block away from me, but he succumbed some years ago to cancer. Of course there's a boatload of rock-lickers here, and I'm a member of the local 'stoners (Mohave County Gemstoners) rock club. The pot-lucks are the best. There are so few of us who actually collect minerals, compared to the general population. Perhaps because we mineral collectors are indeed, "elite". I'm thinking that Wendell has some statistics on this, even just the Mineralogical Record subscription list, compared with the current population of the US. Factor in world-wide subscription, and hey, we are indeed elitists. We fit the definition (thanks Carles): "A special group of people with a superior intellectual (well, narrowly restricted, ie, to rocks and minerals), social (we might not belong to the same circles, run with the same people as it were, but we are bound by a common concern/thread (like this one!). (Social? Just read the way that Gail signs off. She gets it.), or economic status.". This last is tough, although I realize that we have progressed so far when compared to the serfs (or whomever) of the middle ages, that we would definitely be characterized as "upper crust" by their standards. Something like that. One thing for sure, we have much more free time, because have to devote much less time to simply making ends meet, feeding the family. Time is money. We have so much more free time now, compared to "then". I dunno. Just free association while driving through Golden Valley. Maybe it's the heat...

So. Compared with the general population we probably could be construed as being elite, when using the narrow parameters listed above. I like the idea of being "elite". Compared to the average "Joe Schmoe", we mineral collectors all know so much more about rocks and minerals. And, if someone expresses interest in our "common concern" (again Tom Moore), we welcome him/her with open arms, and make room for them. "Welcome to the elite world of mineral collecting. Regardless of your level of interest, start saving your money to buy rocks".

Here's a picture of the hematite to assuage Gneissware. This was taken before I knew how to use my close-up mode. I'll be re-photographing it later, after the crush of the drill campaign has subsided.

As for outliving Les: quien sabe? But I've already written my epitaph: "Here lies Ed Huskinson. At the trough of life, he pigged out."
I figure that pretty much pegs it.

'starde,

Ed

[Peter Megaw]

Way things worked back then, Murf the Serf found a cool rock and the rules said he had to give it to his liege lord, because it was already his. Sounds like the governments attitude towards my money. Murf probably got an extra crust of bread for his trouble and was happy.

As you point out, elites have always existed, what matters is the ease of getting in...we call those who try to narrow the entrance elitists. We could wax psychological about why some feel so insecure they have to close the door after they're in. I think they need a hobby

[Carles Millan]

[nurbo]

Hello
I have this idea that the first mineral collectors must have been the serfs Ed mentions, dragging a pretty rock up from the mines where they relentlessly toiled to make their masters rich, then their masters saw what they had brought from the depths and wanted it for themselves, I could be wrong but it seems logical to suppose that this were the case.

I couldnt help but notice in Gails photoreportage of Denver that there were Sweet Home Rhodo's for $75 - 80 000, thats about what I paid for my house, a price tag of this kind is appealing to the few (relatively) who can afford such sums of money, and they are by definition "Elite" and some may feel they are superior because they have that kind of money to spend on rocks, but in my opinion its all relative, we spend what we can afford to spend, if that is $75k it probably equates as being less than the schoolboy who spends his pocket money, proportionately the schoolboy spends more as an overall percentage of income.

It seems to me that value is maybe of more relevance to non collectors, in that I have non collecting chums who see my collection and ask about its value or how much it cost me to put together, whereas I firmly believe other collectors would be more "Thats an interesting piece are you sure the locality is correct :-) "

[Les Presmyk]

I take a couple of days off and Ed and Pete start running off at the mouth, or email. Of course there are elitists in the mineral hobby, both as dealers and as collectors. It is no big deal, just accept it and move on. I am still not quite sure if I like it when Ed is actually gainfully employed or just sitting around typing away.

I am going to take a different tact and propose that collecting minerals (include fossils) is one of the last great democratic hobbies, bringing folks from all walks of life together. Anyone, with knowledge and hard work, has the opportunity to go out and find a specimen that virtually anyone who collects will covet. Or, you can travel to another country and be lucky enough to purchase a specimen that makes you weak in the knees.

What other hobby would allow someone like me to know the likes of Steve Smale, Gene Meieran, John Lucking, Ed David, Jim and Gail Spann, Bill and Carol Smith, Terry Wallace, Fred Steiniger, Eric Asselborn, Francis Benjamin, and Lauren Megaw, just to name a few? I have not forgotten Tony Potucek, Ed Huskinson, and Peter Megaw, but because we all work, or have worked in the mining business, our paths probably would have crossed at some point in our professional careers.

The people I have listed are among the numerous friends I have made over the years because of our common interest in minerals. In their own fields, excluding Lauren who still has many years ahead of her, everyone I have mentioned can be considered "elite". From investments and economics to medicine, to science, mathematics and technology, I would have no reason to connect with these people, nor them with me.

Another facet of this hobby is the impact we can each have on local and national museums. Not many of us could afford to donate a piece or art or coin or stamp that would be placed on exhibit in one of the national museums, or possibly even local museums. However, most mineral museums are glad to receive new donations and place them proudly on display.

So, do not worry about titles or names. Enjoy the minerals at whatever level you collect and let others worry about categories.

Finally, the only bet I will make is that Lauren Megaw is likely to outlive us all.

Yet, when we walk onto the Tucson Show floor, or bump into one another at some other show, we have a common interest. None of these people have ever struck me as elitists, but they are among a group of elite collectors.