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Price changes
  
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Tom Mazanec




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PostPosted: Apr 24, 2021 11:19    Post subject: Price changes  

My books sometimes give an idea of how much a particular gem or mineral would cost. However, they say prices are very prone to change.
What are the biggest changes of the last five or ten years?
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alfredo
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PostPosted: Apr 24, 2021 12:00    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

Perhaps the tremendous rise in moldavite prices, just because some "star" or so-called "influencer" mentioned moldavite on Tiktok.
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B.




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PostPosted: Apr 24, 2021 12:03    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

Being that this website forum is part of a dealer's website, I am not sure your question is appropriate. However, I will answer it in a different sort of way.

The 2 attached photos are 2 of my best self-collected finds, one from 2014 and the other from 2015. As I was out field collecting, my overhead was only my own time and the meniscule amount of fuel, both essentially zero, as I was out having fun collecting anyway.

For one find, costing me zero, I was offered $2750 USD. The other self collected find, also costing me zero, I was offered $3000 USD. Not bad price changes (3000%) from 1 year to the next.


Essentially, anyone's better quality self-collected examples where there is no overhead to their collection, is the best price change ----- zero to whatever the best offer might be. Bob



fullsizeoutput_3892.jpeg
 Mineral: Calcite on Quartz
 Locality:
Washington County, Missouri, USA
 Dimensions: Calcites to 2.5 cm in a 17 cm x 16 cm geode
 Description:
Private land, Washington County Indiana
Self collected 2015I also have the "cap" for this example
 Viewed:  2427 Time(s)

fullsizeoutput_3892.jpeg



fullsizeoutput_3876.jpeg
 Mineral: Calcite on Quartz
 Locality:
Washington County, Missouri, USA
 Dimensions: Calcite area 10 cm x 13 cm in a 15 cm geode
 Description:
Private land, Washington County Indiana
Self collected 2014I also have the "cap" for this example
 Viewed:  2429 Time(s)

fullsizeoutput_3876.jpeg


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Peter Lemkin




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PostPosted: Apr 24, 2021 13:02    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

Prices have only gone up and up and UP.....to rather unbelievable prices for me, after being a collector for 60 years.
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Carl




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PostPosted: Apr 24, 2021 22:26    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

Amazing to me that a generic, broad-brush question intended to encourage thought and discussion is deemed potentially inappropriate, but another showing photos of specific specimens and quoting actual prices offered for them is thought acceptable.

My thought is that this is an interesting and appropriate topic. Particularly if no dollar signs are used.

Tom, As with the example Alfredo mentioned, often the biggest swings in specimen prices are those artificially generated by media or advertising. Famous people speaking about a mineral species, articles about species or locations in popular magazines or books, and purposeful advertising campaigns. I think of those as being artificial causes. Specimens or locations that are no longer producing wonderful specimens are another thing that can significantly swing prices. The opposite can also happen when locations start or restart producing a lot of nice specimens. I think of things like that as being non-artificial drivers of price changes.

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Peter Lemkin




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PostPosted: Apr 25, 2021 01:03    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

Carl wrote:

often the biggest swings in specimen prices are those artificially generated by media or advertising. Famous people speaking about a mineral species, articles about species or locations in popular magazines or books, and purposeful advertising campaigns. I think of those as being artificial causes. Specimens or locations that are no longer producing wonderful specimens are another thing that can significantly swing prices. The opposite can also happen when locations start or restart producing a lot of nice specimens. I think of things like that as being non-artificial drivers of price changes.


All above are factors, I'd like to offer some others. I think the first big bump up was long ago when the 'healing crystal' craze started to really kick in. This mostly effected quartz XX and a few other species. More recently [about 20-25 years ago] some of the wealthy dealers had enough money to open mines just for specimens and they were often spectacular specimens!. Then, especially - but not only - in the USA wealthy people started to buy high end specimens for art and bragging rights, rather than for mineralogy per se. I'd say that on top of inflation I've seen high end minerals add at least two zeros in the price. Low and medium specimens also have greatly increased in price, but a bit less than the very high end specimens. While I admit that today we have specimens from more locations than we did when I first started collecting and the quality range has been expanded upward, I used to be able to occasionally buy what was then high end specimens and I can only look at them and shake my head at the prices. I'm pretty good at bargaining and many dealers put a price tag higher than they will sell it for if you can make a logical argument or buy a few specimens or know them, but still the prices are getting astronomical and soon to be cosmic for high end stuff........ Yes, it has made my collection rise in price, but as my income has decreased, the prices have greatly increased over the years. At shows, I always find a nice bargain, but I don't come away with a backpack full of new minerals as in the old days.
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Tom Mazanec




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PostPosted: Apr 25, 2021 11:07    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

Bob Harman wrote:
Being that this website forum is part of a dealer's website, I am not sure your question is appropriate. However, I will answer it in a different sort of way.

The 2 attached photos are 2 of my best self-collected finds, one from 2014 and the other from 2015. As I was out field collecting, my overhead was only my own time and the meniscule amount of fuel, both essentially zero, as I was out having fun collecting anyway.

For one find, costing me zero, I was offered $2750 USD. The other self collected find, also costing me zero, I was offered $3000 USD. Not bad price changes (3000%) from 1 year to the next.


Essentially, anyone's better quality self-collected examples where there is no overhead to their collection, is the best price change ----- zero to whatever the best offer might be. Bob


Excuse me, but isn't that a 9% increase???
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B.




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PostPosted: Apr 25, 2021 11:51    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

TOM,
There were 2 (!) personally self-collected examples shown, both used only as examples.

One was from 0 cost - $2750 offered, the other was from 0 cost - $3000 offered.
In my arithmetic, the one example went from 0 cost to $3000 sale is 3000% profit. The profit margin is 100%
The other example was a 2750% profit. The profit margin is 100% Two completely separate examples

But my basic point, which I did not make clear in my posting, was that any hi quality example self-collected, including a gold nugget, a genuine diamond, or meteorite or any other mineral specimen, collected at zero cost and sold for a large sum of money, can be considered a big profit or " big price change" which was the question you posed in your initial posting. BOB
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Tom Mazanec




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PostPosted: Apr 25, 2021 12:47    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

Bob Harman wrote:
TOM,
There were 2 (!) personally self-collected examples shown, both used only as examples.

One was from 0 cost - $2750 offered, the other was from 0 cost - $3000 offered.
In my arithmetic, the one example went from 0 cost to $3000 sale is 3000% profit. The profit margin is 100%
The other example was a 2750% profit. The profit margin is 100% Two completely separate examples

But my basic point, which I did not make clear in my posting, was that any hi quality example self-collected, including a gold nugget, a genuine diamond, or meteorite or any other mineral specimen, collected at zero cost and sold for a large sum of money, can be considered a big profit or " big price change" which was the question you posed in your initial posting. BOB

I thought it was obvious that that is not what the books are talking about when they warn that their price guides are subject to change. and 0 to any number is an infinite percent change.
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James Catmur
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PostPosted: Apr 25, 2021 13:01    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

One of those two infinite increases might be bigger than the other? Or it might not? Who knows.
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Bergur_E_Sigurdarson




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PostPosted: Apr 25, 2021 13:14    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

Funny how we got into maths....
even if assumed cost of obtaining a specimen is $1 ... 3000% would be $30
:-P

I often see (mostly those older than me, being 44) long time collectors complain about how a certain something piece from a locality was so and so in the early 80's and now is this and that much more...
...so... I was wondering how much the official inflation accounts for the numerical changes in the cases I've heard and read about.

Found a neat little tool :
www (dot) usinflationcalculator (dot) com

...and kinda unsurprisingly, just plain inflation accounted for near all of the price changes mentioned to me.
(at least since early 70's in the case of USD)

Our societies problem is that inflation is used against us.... the bigger players negotiate salary rises of say 5% a year... sounds good... but actually was a decrease in pay as inflation same year was about 10%
....and with many fixed costs, what we're left with is proportionally even smaller... even tho the numerical amount in our pocket may have gone up.

Another factor with those who have collected for long is that they get pickier with time (I can already tell with myself)... wanting/choosing more perfect pieces that command higher prices usually.

As for gemstones (and as mentioned healy-feelies and trophy pieces for the rich) it's more about what is in fashion.

And maybe lastly as I think was mentioned too... for specimens... availability ....exhausted finds/mines can make specimens from there, go up... or even overall if they were the main source before.

So... yea... I see many factors :-)

...this is of course just my limited point of view, and being fairly new to this hobby it wouldn't surprise me if others more experienced have better and more concrete answers :-P
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lluis




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PostPosted: Apr 25, 2021 13:28    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

Maybe following dear Bergur..

When I was a child in 1960's, a ticket of metro, go and return, costed me 50 centimes (of peseta....), A ticket of bus, any something so astronomical as 50 cents of a peseta.
Now, a single ticket for metro costs more than a Euro (say, more that 166,586 pesetas).
Which means a rocketing increase of 72,000% ...
And no one care for that...
Prices rise in long time (which eventual and point falls...)
Life is as is.
I am not exactly young, but to complain about what I get when I was young, well, as a joke, maybe nice... But not real... (when a kid, I buy Iberian coppers, bargains at this time. Now, they are EXPENSIVE, far more than metro tickets,,,,)
Things are

With best wishes

Lluís
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Roger Warin




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PostPosted: Apr 25, 2021 14:44    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

Hello,

These values attributed to aesthetic specimens are prohibitive.
They are only the result of collective intellectual pollution.
Never an informed collector will fall into this trap.
Once again, I know a friend, an elderly collector specializing in Katangese, who saw his selling prices multiplied by 10 by his buyer.
He now has the impression of having been duped.

Mineralogy is a science. It should not be confused with works of art or old paintings.

Currently, the diamond world is going through a crisis.
Synthetic diamonds, of very high quality, compete effectively and dangerously with natural diamonds. The sector is not euphoric.
By the way, it is better to buy a synthetic moissanite, the main flaw of which is its birefringence. But on the other hand, its fires are multiple… to the point of becoming a quality. This is only a very personal opinion.
Apart from China with its increasingly endless possibilities, where are the mines for good specimens? A few exceptions, and among old amateurs collections.

On this subject, it is currently good to associate a specimen with its history (old labels, etc.).

In Europe, there is another concern.
This is the problem of inheritance. How can a notary get an idea of the heritage?
And on what value will the taxes be fixed?
What are or will be his references?
Who will be the experts in this extremely narrow niche? And what will be their skills to claim this expert title?
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Peter Lemkin




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PostPosted: Apr 26, 2021 01:20    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

From when I started collecting to today [according to the website you mentioned above] the US$ has increased by 8.5x. So, let's say add one zero. That doesn't account for the change in prices I see. The biggest change was from about 1995 to now and I think if plotted would show a sharply rising X axis. Just saying. I realize I used to get a haircut for $ 1.00 etc.

Yes, it is true that the spread in wealth gap has widened GREATLY, and I find myself now in the bottom group going down, not up [or even staying constant].

There are more high end specimens for sale now than when I was young or in my 30's. They started to appear in quantity when I was about 35-40 and continue, with some slow fall-off in last years. Many are from better collectors after they died or sold their collections - others come from 'new' places for those of us in Europe and N.A., and due to dedicated specimen mining. I love the wonderful new specimens, just personally can't afford many of them any more at the high end.......
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James Catmur
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PostPosted: Apr 26, 2021 09:30    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

It seems to me to be a form of reverse auction.

Put it on sale at a very high price and if it sells you do very well. If it does not, cut the price by 50% and you still make a nice profit when it sells. If it still does not sell, go for double keystone and even then you still make back what you paid for it.

There are a few that I will consider when they are double keystone, but so far they are resisting.
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Carles Millan
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PostPosted: Apr 26, 2021 09:38    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

James Catmur wrote:
Put it on sale at a very high price and if it sells you do very well. If it does not, cut the price by 50% and you still make a nice profit when it sells. If it still does not sell, go for double keystone and even then you still make back what you paid for it.

Unfortunately, this is more common as the years go by...
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alfredo
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PostPosted: Apr 26, 2021 15:41    Post subject: Re: Price changes  

When an extra zero has been added to the price, even "double keystone" is too much.
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