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Cesar M. Salvan
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Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Posts: 126
Location: Alcalá de Henares
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Posted: Jun 17, 2012 16:29 Post subject: Re: Are Minerals Alive? |
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If you think about the topic more thoroughly, will find these definition incomplete and actually not real definitions and impregnated with a pretty tautology flavour ("living thing is those that is not dead" could be a definition). Moreover, the second definition you provided is not correct.
The definition of life is a still unresolved and not straightforward question that puzzles philosophers and scientists. As a profound study about the topic, I suggest three references:
Tirard et al. (2010). The definition of life: a brief history of an elusive scientific endeavor. Astrobiology 10, 1003
The chapter written by Antonio Lazcano in the book "Origin of Life: A Chemical Perspective" (Herdewijn and Kisakurek eds., 2008)
and the excellent divulgative book of Pier Luigi Luisi
"The Emergence of Life: From Chemical Origins to Synthetic Biology" |
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Riccardo Modanesi
Joined: 07 Nov 2011
Posts: 620
Location: Milano
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Posted: Jun 18, 2012 07:40 Post subject: Re: Are Minerals Alive? |
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Hi to everybody!
I don't know whether minerals are actually alive, but I think (and underline: it's a personal opinion!) minerals have an intelligence.
Now I'm going to explain it: how do you explain a mineral grows in perfect shapes (cubes, prismas, pyramids, double pyramids etc.)? It is because atoms already know where they have to go and take their place into the mineral cell! Isn't it a manifestation of intelligence?
Furthermore: if you molt a rock and gradually cool it, minerals separate themselves in the way THEY want to separate, not in the way WE want them to do it! THEY decide how and when they get solid again, they decide the other minerals they can mix with! THEY decide the shape they crystallize in.
Take it as a personal opinion, of course!
Greetings from Italy by Riccardo. _________________ Hi! I'm a collector of minerals since 1973 and a gemmologist. On Summer I always visit mines and quarries all over Europe looking for minerals! Ok, there is time to tell you much much more! Greetings from Italy by Riccardo. |
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Cesar M. Salvan
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Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Posts: 126
Location: Alcalá de Henares
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Posted: Jun 18, 2012 08:00 Post subject: Re: Are Minerals Alive? |
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Rules of chemistry are not intelligence. Are just..rules. |
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Carles Millan
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Joined: 05 May 2007
Posts: 1474
Location: Catalonia
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Posted: Jun 18, 2012 08:06 Post subject: Re: Are Minerals Alive? |
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Riccardo Modanesi wrote: | how do you explain a mineral grows in perfect shapes (cubes, prismas, pyramids, double pyramids etc.)? It is because atoms already know where they have to go and take their place into the mineral cell! Isn't it a manifestation of intelligence? |
Hi Ricardo!
Minerals per se do not have intelligence. A crystal grows in perfect shapes for the same reason an object that is dropped goes to the floor. It's just a matter of reaching the minimum energy possible, a restatement of the second law of thermodynamics that is general in all the Universe (except maybe in the black holes where you will not find any mineral). All the systems we know tend to go to the minimum energy state, and so do the atoms in a growing crystal. No need of intelligence. |
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prcantos
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Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 243
Location: Granada (Spain)
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Posted: Jun 18, 2012 08:17 Post subject: Re: Are Minerals Alive? |
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Cesar M. Salvan wrote: | The definition of life is a still unresolved and not straightforward question that puzzles philosophers and scientists.
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Hi. Definitely I agree.
There is a philosophical concept from Scholastics that may be useful here: 'analogy', which involves identity and difference (technically, univocal and ambiguous sense). 'Minerals are alive, minerals want to separate, minerals decide, minerals tend to...' alre always analogical propositions which are admisible in scientific language though, and make it easier.
Greetings. _________________ Pablo Rodríguez Cantos
Λίθον˛ον απεδοκίμασαν˛οι οικοδομουντες |
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Riccardo Modanesi
Joined: 07 Nov 2011
Posts: 620
Location: Milano
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Posted: Jun 19, 2012 07:44 Post subject: Re: Are Minerals Alive? |
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Hi to everybody, hi Carles!
One reason more! Usually mankind does its better to waste energy instead of saving it! It's not a joke, it's reality! Therefore there are moments in which minerals are even more intelligent than mankind!
Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.
[Minerals per se do not have intelligence. A crystal grows in perfect shapes for the same reason an object that is dropped goes to the floor. It's just a matter of reaching the minimum energy possible, a restatement of the second law of thermodynamics that is general in all the Universe (except maybe in the black holes where you will not find any mineral). All the systems we know tend to go to the minimum energy state, and so do the atoms in a growing crystal. No need of intelligence.[/quote] _________________ Hi! I'm a collector of minerals since 1973 and a gemmologist. On Summer I always visit mines and quarries all over Europe looking for minerals! Ok, there is time to tell you much much more! Greetings from Italy by Riccardo. |
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nicu
Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 90
Location: Bucharest
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Posted: Jun 21, 2012 12:12 Post subject: Re: Are Minerals Alive? |
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Hi,
I agree with Tracy, Michael and Cesar.
Scientific approach: can study, investigate, discover and you try continually to contradict these laws. Non scientific: studying and researching permanently make use of scientific theory AND always create templates from which you can not escape.
Human being likes ''forever'' and ''always''. Not the minerals, not the Universe.
Regards,
Nicu _________________ Earth's Tears |
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JMiguelE
Joined: 09 Apr 2007
Posts: 23
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Posted: Jun 26, 2012 02:43 Post subject: Re: Are Minerals Alive? |
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Yes, it is true. There are laws; there are rules; there are formulas. The formula can be expressed by numbers and letters. But they are not the power that make to grow the crystals. They are only numbers, letters, words, sounds. Even "power" is only a word, a sound or several letters, no more. We do not know really what the phenomenon is itself. We only can to observe it.
But we can to express the problem in an other way: Does the crystals have any kind of consciousness? |
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