FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[Tracy]

I yield! :)

- Tracy

[chris]

While talking about mineral diseases, what about light exposure? I'm sure some of you experienced it with vivianite, orpiment, realgar, fluorite...

I agree with Tracy, iron is more dangerous than sulfur, just as realgar cinnabar or orpiment (dose effect).

Christophe

[Jordi Fabre]

[Cesar M. Salvan]

"are minerals alive?"

"Crystals grow from nothing, crystals often get sick, sometimes even are attacked by bacteria, and eventually crystals die. The difference is that they usually live much more than a million years."

It is an interesting question, because allow us to introduce some points now under discussion about the Life and approach to one of the frontiers of Science.
From a scientific point of view:

We can not define formally the concept "life", despite the fact that we intuitively recognize the living entities.
But we could identify some exclusive properties of the life:

- Autopoiesis
- Far from equilibrium thermodynamics
- Dynamic kinetic stability
- Self-organization and emergent properties

Minerals growth and evolve, but do not share any of these properties with living beings and, basically, mineral evolution is governed by the laws of equilibrium or near-to-equilibrium thermodynamics.
Growing and evolution and even reproduction are not intrinsic and exclusive characteristics of the life. So, in conclusion, minerals are not alive :))

funny question, anyway :)

[Carles Millan]

What is the definition of life? Two references taken at random:

Wikipedia
"Life is a characteristic that distinguishes objects that have signaling and self-sustaining processes from those that do not, either because such functions have ceased (death), or else because they lack such functions and are classified as inanimate."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life

Dictionary.com
"The condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, and the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally."
https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/life
(link normalized by FMF)

So it seems clear that minerals are not a form of life.

[Cesar M. Salvan]

If you think about the topic more thoroughly, will find these definition incomplete and actually not real definitions and impregnated with a pretty tautology flavour ("living thing is those that is not dead" could be a definition). Moreover, the second definition you provided is not correct.

The definition of life is a still unresolved and not straightforward question that puzzles philosophers and scientists. As a profound study about the topic, I suggest three references:

Tirard et al. (2010). The definition of life: a brief history of an elusive scientific endeavor. Astrobiology 10, 1003

The chapter written by Antonio Lazcano in the book "Origin of Life: A Chemical Perspective" (Herdewijn and Kisakurek eds., 2008)

and the excellent divulgative book of Pier Luigi Luisi
"The Emergence of Life: From Chemical Origins to Synthetic Biology"

[Riccardo Modanesi]

Hi to everybody!
I don't know whether minerals are actually alive, but I think (and underline: it's a personal opinion!) minerals have an intelligence.
Now I'm going to explain it: how do you explain a mineral grows in perfect shapes (cubes, prismas, pyramids, double pyramids etc.)? It is because atoms already know where they have to go and take their place into the mineral cell! Isn't it a manifestation of intelligence?
Furthermore: if you molt a rock and gradually cool it, minerals separate themselves in the way THEY want to separate, not in the way WE want them to do it! THEY decide how and when they get solid again, they decide the other minerals they can mix with! THEY decide the shape they crystallize in.
Take it as a personal opinion, of course!
Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.

[Cesar M. Salvan]

Rules of chemistry are not intelligence. Are just..rules.

[Carles Millan]

[prcantos]

[Riccardo Modanesi]

Hi to everybody, hi Carles!
One reason more! Usually mankind does its better to waste energy instead of saving it! It's not a joke, it's reality! Therefore there are moments in which minerals are even more intelligent than mankind!
Greetings from Italy by Riccardo.



[Minerals per se do not have intelligence. A crystal grows in perfect shapes for the same reason an object that is dropped goes to the floor. It's just a matter of reaching the minimum energy possible, a restatement of the second law of thermodynamics that is general in all the Universe (except maybe in the black holes where you will not find any mineral). All the systems we know tend to go to the minimum energy state, and so do the atoms in a growing crystal. No need of intelligence.[/quote]

[nicu]

Hi,
I agree with Tracy, Michael and Cesar.
Scientific approach: can study, investigate, discover and you try continually to contradict these laws. Non scientific: studying and researching permanently make use of scientific theory AND always create templates from which you can not escape.
Human being likes ''forever'' and ''always''. Not the minerals, not the Universe.

Regards,

Nicu

[JMiguelE]

Yes, it is true. There are laws; there are rules; there are formulas. The formula can be expressed by numbers and letters. But they are not the power that make to grow the crystals. They are only numbers, letters, words, sounds. Even "power" is only a word, a sound or several letters, no more. We do not know really what the phenomenon is itself. We only can to observe it.
But we can to express the problem in an other way: Does the crystals have any kind of consciousness?