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What is the definition of 'No Damage'?
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lluis




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PostPosted: Sep 03, 2009 16:23    Post subject: Re: What is the definition of 'No Damage'?  

Hi, Nurbo

Well, I can say that at least a seller that sells in internet always say : undamaged under 10x lenses (or damaged)
Needless to say, I trust him and many times I buy only asking if the piece follow my tastes.
He never failed me! And many more just point me to the possible troubles. I am a recurrent buyer from them ..... :-)

On the other side, I fear that you will need to pay the postage to return goods.
That is as usually runs the business...

Be happy: I returned my only one item, I paid the postage to return it and I got not (well, who knows? Only three years passed.... :-) ) my money back.
Not even an apollogy :-) (a nice deal, mine: no piece, no money and also return postage paid.....)

With best wishes and my wows for a lucky end...

Lluís
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alfredo
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PostPosted: Sep 03, 2009 16:52    Post subject: Re: What is the definition of 'No Damage'?  

I don't do mailorder myself, either as buyer or seller, so I'll give a neutral opinion: I think it fair for both parties in a transaction to each accept some degree of risk. The seller should pay the postage and insurance for sending you the piece and you, if you don't like it, should pay the postage and insurance for sending it back.

But the reality is that many dealers charge the customer for the initial shipping and insurance too, and (most shamelessly) sometimes even an extra fee for "handling", whatever that means. Can you imagine buying a $5 bag of potatoes in the market and then being charged $6... an extra dollar because they had to "handle" it? If anyone tried that with me, my usual polite vocabulary would deteriorate to 4-letter words. But somehow lots of mailorder houses get away with that. Anyway, if you were charged in advance for shipping, I think it would be fair to ask the dealer to pay the return shipping.
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GneissWare




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PostPosted: Sep 03, 2009 17:20    Post subject: Re: What is the definition of 'No Damage'?  

I do sell by mail-order, so my policy is as follows:

1. I pay for shipping within the USA, and only ask for the additional costs for overseas shipping.

2. If the buyer wants to return it because they don't like it, then I expect them to pay for return shipping.

3. If I messed up, by shipping the wrong piece or not properly describing the piece, I reimburse for return shipping, and give a full refund, if the piece is returned in the same condition it was sent. If its damaged, that's why it is insured, so again, the buyer gets his money back.

I think most sellers operate like this, because people really do need to be able to touch the specimen, and if it just isn't right, the most it should cost them is the return shipping. Of course, the seller eats the cost of shipping, but hopefully the buyer will develop a trusting relationship with the seller.

In this case, the specimen was not as described, so if the seller wants to have a future customer, he should accept the return, reimburse the return shipping, and refund the purchase costs (including outbound shipping). This is the only fair way to treat a customer.
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nurbo




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PostPosted: Sep 03, 2009 17:48    Post subject: Re: What is the definition of 'No Damage'?  

I didnt mention that the guy charged about 15.5 euros ($22) postage and the actual cost was 8.5 euros, 7 euros for packaging?
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Jason




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PostPosted: Sep 04, 2009 00:15    Post subject: Re: What is the definition of 'No Damage'?  

I hate it when folks tack on so much more for the shipping or "handling"..it seems you are trying to make a quick buck the shiesty way
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nurbo




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PostPosted: Sep 04, 2009 02:45    Post subject: Re: What is the definition of 'No Damage'?  

It buge me too, I dont mind if someone adds maybe 50 cents or something to cover the cost of jiffy bags, boxes, tape etc but when its an amount like $10 it is a con, a way of slyly upping your profit, and another great way of destroying your reputation and losing repeat customers.
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jimB




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PostPosted: Sep 07, 2009 20:27    Post subject: Re: What is the definition of 'No Damage'?  

On your specimen there is damage...period. Worse the damage is on a termination and worse still, it is on the highest point of the specimen. No damage means no damage, the piece has damage and guess what.....it's damaged.

Now, it isn't damaged very much. In the old days (yawn) these minor salt grain dings were called Wilbers. Most folks would say the piece has no damage but there is a Wilber or two. The question becomes what level of damage can u live with and how much is the piece? Perfection does cost!

Personally, were I a calcite collector, I would shy away from chewy pieces esp. if chewed on an upper terminal edge. The seller said no damage, it isn't as advertized, send it back or agree on a price to include the ding.

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Les Presmyk




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PostPosted: Sep 08, 2009 09:32    Post subject: Re: What is the definition of 'No Damage'?  

I agree with Jim although these nicks are bigger than Wilburs. If you like the piece and want to keep it, do so. Just recognize that the damage will never go away and it will be an issue when you decide to sell or trade the piece.
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nurbo




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PostPosted: Sep 10, 2009 03:32    Post subject: Re: What is the definition of 'No Damage'?  

It took 8 days to get a sensible answer from him, the guy expects me to pay the postage to return it, good thing I decided to keep it,

I sent him a link to this thread but I would bet he doesnt sign up and respond. Im tempted to file a paypal dispute just to inconvenience him but hey lifes too short to bother, I agree that the price reflects the damage and Im happy with the piece at the price I paid and I know myself and the people Ive told privately about this guy will never buy from him in the future,

I got the chance to rate him on the auction site where I came across him and I gave him a generous 0 out of 10, without exception the worst buying experience Ive ever had.
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nurbo




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PostPosted: Sep 11, 2009 14:53    Post subject: Re: What is the definition of 'No Damage'?  

p.s.
I thought the matter was done with but then I get this surprisingly quick reply to my challenge for him to sign up here and put his point across to everyone, he says he doesnt want to discuss the matter any more, I have the right to return it (At my expense) which is apparently what all websites do ( I pointed out that it isnt when they have incorrectly described specimens), and he doesnt have time to sign up and respond to this post (As predicted).

Givent that he marks himself as a serious dealer who sells to serious collectors, as I may have mentioned earlier, if you mark an item as "No damage" you are clearly going to appeal to people who will check it, its a no brainer. Anyhow I thnk thats the end of it. Well I hope it is anyway.
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Ed Huskinson




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PostPosted: Sep 11, 2009 22:38    Post subject: Re: What is the definition of 'No Damage'?  

So Nurbo. How does it look next to your Welsh calcite? Does it offset the other piece nicely? Are they good bookends, complement each other?

Just curious.

Thanks,

Ed

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nurbo




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PostPosted: Sep 12, 2009 03:34    Post subject: Re: What is the definition of 'No Damage'?  

Hey Ed,
Heres a picture, they compliment one another really nicely.



DSCF9481.JPG
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In situ
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DSCF9481.JPG


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Ed Huskinson




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PostPosted: Sep 12, 2009 17:35    Post subject: Re: What is the definition of 'No Damage'?  

Yes, I see. They do have the same overall aspect. And the Welsh piece also appears to have similar sort of irregular edges, although probably not "damage", but more like reflections of where internal cleavages would project to the termination of the calcite. Yes, they do look good together, and I see why you chose to keep the piece. I would have done the same thing.

Say, tell us about the reddish calcite in front of the Welsh piece and to the left of the specimen we've all been going on about for the past few days.

Is it from Santa Eulalia?? It's an intriguing specimen.....

Thanks for sharing.

Ed

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Ed Huskinson




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PostPosted: Sep 12, 2009 17:36    Post subject: Re: What is the definition of 'No Damage'?  

Oh, I see now. It's a Mibladen vanadinite. Just hoping....

Thanks again.

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nurbo




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PostPosted: Dec 06, 2009 03:27    Post subject: Re: What is the definition of 'No Damage'?  

nurbo wrote:
Hello again,
Just for fun Im trying to figure out some kind of equation that would factor different kinds of damage and severity of damage into some kind of a numerical rating, its really complicated.


Re an equation to differentiate levels of damage ... Having intermittently considered this problem over the last few months Ive come to the conclusion that it isnt possible, its all too subjective. Ive considered many methods involving percentages, measurements and algebraic means of representing these but they soon become too complex for general use, too easy to manipulate or they can even be misleading. The best thing to do is to buy off people you trust, dont be afraid to give sellers a hard time if they mislead you with inaccurate descriptions and whenever possible buy face to face rather than online.
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