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vic rzonca
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 805
Location: MA
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 Posted: Dec 05, 2012 08:53 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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| Thanks for the comments Pierre. Your collecting adventures are exciting and filled with a variety of possibilities. It looks like you have much ground to cover, good luck and keep the posts coming.
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Elise
Joined: 22 Dec 2009
Posts: 243
Location: New York State
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| Posted: Dec 05, 2012 16:58 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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| vic rzonca wrote: | | For a while now, off and on, we've found some rather odd floater quartz crystals at the site. This one qualifies as the oddest. After showing it to John White, I thought I'd have a good image taken to share with the forum. These fine shot's were taken by Jeff Scovil, at the East Coast show, far better than anything I could take, and much more informative than trying to explain an inferior photo. I would be interested in what you folks think might be the process that produced this form. Much of the quartz we find is associated with anthraxolite, a compact hydrocarbon that was present with the silicified fluids that grew the quartz. Many of the crystals found are the classic Herkimer form, no point of attachment, but this one is really something else. It would be interesting to know if anyone has ever seen another crystal of any species with a similar form. We have found a few of these. This, the best so far. I look forward to your input, and thanks for viewing. |
Hi Vic!
I'm so happy to see that you posted the portraits of this specimen - I had seen this when Jeff was imaging it -- what a fascinating crystal!
In Frondel under growth hillocks and spiral dislocations, (my hasty summary of it here) it describes surface features which are closely related to vicinal growth surfaces and which are found on both natural and synthetic quartz crystals. They can be several cm and equant or oval to elongate, can be small or overlapping or a single large hillock can occupy most or all of a face. Relatively flat on the r and more numerous, overlapping and steeper on {0001}. Under magnification (?x) the hillocks may show spiral terraces.
I am thinking of the pebbley surface of synthetic quartz bars - I've seen them quite large (I believe that is the c face or {0001} ) . Anyway, this rushed synopsis is all that comes to mind. I started thinking about it again today trying to figure out raised circular patches overlapping several faces on a topaz crystal I'm trying to understand. Some questions I have about your quartz include whether those very flat circular glassy areas on the domes are crystal faces and what are the optical properties of the specimen? It would be fun to study your quartz enigma!
Cheers!
Elise
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Elise Skalwold |
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vic rzonca
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 805
Location: MA
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| Posted: Dec 13, 2012 09:45 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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Elise, thanks for keeping it simple. Being a rank amateur in these matters I'll try to keep up. The flats you mention are, I think, indeed crystal faces and goniometric measurements would confirm them to be consistent with the quartz ideal. But I haven't done the work. I see the similarity to the lab grown quartz, but those growth features are concave in the specimen in 1152 and 1153, where as the collected natural piece is convex and quite regular. As to the optical properties, I wouldn't know where to begin. It seems as though the silica was pressed into a smooth mold and left to grow to an incomplete sphere leaving the uncontacted portions to form the faces. The involvement with the anthaxolite globs, now solidified, may have something to do with this molding process. But, again this is from the point of view of a carpenter, not a scholar. I would consider lending it out for further investigation. Hand delivered, I'd hate to get it lost in the mail. Thanks for the interest Elise, see you in Tucson?
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Elise
Joined: 22 Dec 2009
Posts: 243
Location: New York State
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| Posted: Dec 13, 2012 11:36 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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| vic rzonca wrote: | | The flats you mention are, I think, indeed crystal faces and goniometric measurements would confirm them to be consistent with the quartz ideal. |
Hi Vic!
Yes, it would be fun to try to figure it out on the goniometer. For those not familiar with the instrument or who would like to see a classic model, we had a thread here from a project I am involved with: https://www.mineral-forum.com/message-board/viewtopic.php?t=1601.
This instrument is far too heavy for me to even pick up (ie: no house call possible), but if you find yourself in the area of Cornell, it would be fun to take a look at the crystal together. Also, we have often thought the goniometer might be a fun demo/exhibit to have at the Rochester Mineral Symposium someday - so perhaps that would be where we could all put our heads together on this oddity !
One other idea brought up has been the dolostone - does the crystallography of the dolostone affect the growth of the quartz? There are other occurrences of spheroid crystals found in that type of environment (I don't have all the facts in front of me, but maybe someone else can explain or I can add more later).
| vic rzonca wrote: | | ...Being a rank amateur in these matters I'll try to keep up...But, again this is from the point of view of a carpenter, not a scholar. |
I'm not a mineralogist or crystallographer; this is just a point-of-view from another carpenter (amateur, but I built my house) ;-) !
Cheers!
Elise
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Elise Skalwold |
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vic rzonca
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 805
Location: MA
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| Posted: Dec 26, 2012 09:17 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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A couple more from the dolostone. Some of the largest yet. We must wait for spring.
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| 18 cm., with calcite and dolostone, not particularly nice, but large. |
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vic rzonca
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 805
Location: MA
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| Posted: Dec 26, 2012 09:51 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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A few more smaller ones from the site.
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| 10 cm. wide field of view. |
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vic rzonca
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 805
Location: MA
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| Posted: Jul 05, 2013 21:49 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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What follows is a part inventory of our endeavors from last season on the Little Falls dolostone. This year, so far, has been kind of a wash out. Days of rain or dodging thunder storms makes for soggy collecting. Not even a mucked up drift to hide in.
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Quartz
Fonda, Mohawk County, New York, USA
5 cm. |
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16110 Time(s) |
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Quartz scepter
Fonda, Mohawk County, New York, USA
7 cm.
Our lab in the background. |
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16127 Time(s) |
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Large quartz in dolostone matrix
Fonda, Mohawk County, New York, USA
Compound crystal 21 cm. |
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16124 Time(s) |
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Quartz
Fonda, Mohawk County, New York, USA
8 cm, top to bottom
Another compound crystal |
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16113 Time(s) |
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Quartz
Fonda, Mohawk County, New York, USA
5 cm.
Sick of looking at quartz yet? |
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16129 Time(s) |
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Quartz
Fonda, Mohawk County, New York, USA
Center crysal is @ 10 cm.
A pile of quartz |
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Quartz
Fonda, Mohawk County, New York, USA
Crystal is 12 cm.
We are lucky to have a bit of ground at the site that gives up quartz on matrix. |
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16120 Time(s) |
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Quartz
Fonda, Mohawk County, New York, USA
13 cm. Top to bottom.
More quartz on dolostone. |
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16114 Time(s) |
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Quartz
Fonda, Mohawk County, New York, USA
Smokey and clear cluster to 13 cm. wide. |
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16133 Time(s) |
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Quartz
Fonda, Mohawk County, New York, USA
6 cm.
A smokey and a cluttered partner. |
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16113 Time(s) |
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Quartz
Fonda, Mohawk County, New York, USA
Pocket contents 1 cm. to 5 cm. with anthraxolite inclutions. |
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16128 Time(s) |
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Mike Wood
Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Posts: 456
Location: Northern England
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| Posted: Jul 06, 2013 08:57 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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Nice quartzes Vic; I for one don't get sick of looking at them ! Your 'lab' looks interesting and very well stocked !!
How do you reckon that some specimens show smoky and clear crystals adjacent ?
Thanks for sharing. Cheers, Mike
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vic rzonca
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 805
Location: MA
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| Posted: Jul 06, 2013 09:25 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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Intrepid field collectors Laura Delano (not just a pretty face, standing center) and Don Davis (right), you might recognize them from their work at various shows around the country.
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| At school. Pay attention Don, if you want to find the big ones. |
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| Don Davis, a long time member of the Connecticut Valley Mineral Club. Don is eighty seven years old, and he can kick the crap out of me and five other men or boys when it comes to moving rock. He puts us to shame, the old goat. |
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16044 Time(s) |
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| The object of his attention. He finds while we jawbone. |
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vic rzonca
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 805
Location: MA
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| Posted: Jul 06, 2013 09:52 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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Thanks Mike. I'm a better field collector than field geologist, but if you believe that the smokiness comes from included anthraxolite, then the dark one was closer to the atomization of the anthraxolite (?). If the smokiness is caused by background radiation, perhaps the radiation was highly directional, and the clearer one was in the shadow (?).
Just the thoughts of a fevered carpenters brain.
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Pierre Joubert
Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 1605
Location: Western Cape
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| Posted: Jul 06, 2013 11:48 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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Hi Vic. I had a chuckle at the 'tired of quartz' bit. We just came back from a wonderful quartz collecting trip! I am sorry that your trip was a wash-out. Thanks for the fascinating photos. Are those shelves in the background your's?
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Pierre Joubert
'The tree of silence bears the fruit of peace. ' |
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vic rzonca
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 805
Location: MA
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| Posted: Jul 06, 2013 12:24 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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| I'm a partner to it. There really is no way to stop aggressive field collectors, as you well know, being likewise afflicted. A good collecting chum makes the work go easier. Two people can do the work of three, just a field observation. So lets see your rewards from the quartz fields of South Africa. Wait, let me guess, dry and sunny. Thanks Pierre.
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Pierre Joubert
Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 1605
Location: Western Cape
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| Posted: Jul 06, 2013 13:46 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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| vic rzonca wrote: | | I'm a partner to it. There really is no way to stop aggressive field collectors, as you well know, being likewise afflicted. A good collecting chum makes the work go easier. Two people can do the work of three, just a field observation. So lets see your rewards from the quartz fields of South Africa. Wait, let me guess, dry and sunny. Thanks Pierre. |
Yes, lovely weather; a cold wind with a bit of snow still on the mountains. We found some nice crystals and had a lot of fun. Perhaps you should come and collect with us when it is so wet on your side. Regards.
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Pierre Joubert
'The tree of silence bears the fruit of peace. ' |
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vic rzonca
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 805
Location: MA
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| Posted: Jul 18, 2013 12:47 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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Quartz crystal. 14 cm.
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15761 Time(s) |
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vic rzonca
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 805
Location: MA
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| Posted: Sep 30, 2013 13:00 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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One of the more interesting finds this fall. Half of a compound crystal after a light cleaning.
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Quartz
Little Falls dolostone, Fonda, Mohawk township, Montgomery Co., New York, USA.
14 x 14 cm. |
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15125 Time(s) |
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| Same as above, slight rotation to the right. |
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15132 Time(s) |
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vic rzonca
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 805
Location: MA
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| Posted: Nov 23, 2013 13:23 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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Rock breaking bad.
Or maybe just ok.
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| Not the last day on the bench, but close. Was that a snow flake Don? |
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| I swear you couldn't pay me to do this. Must be an obsession. |
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| A 6-7 cm. pocket. To tight to extract whole, as with most groupings found in the dolostone, it will be reassembled. It can be done seamlessly. |
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14542 Time(s) |
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| It's ready to be trimmed. |
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14529 Time(s) |
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| Some quartz grubbed out of the top few inches of not yet frozen top soil. |
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14524 Time(s) |
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| The contents of a small pocket with up to cm. size quartz and anthraxolite bits disgorged onto the bench. |
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14545 Time(s) |
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Mike Wood
Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Posts: 456
Location: Northern England
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| Posted: Nov 24, 2013 07:27 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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Nice to see you back Vic; looks like a nice steady project to pursue, without too many hazards.. ever see any snakes around?
Regards, Mike
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vic rzonca
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 805
Location: MA
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| Posted: Nov 24, 2013 14:50 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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Only anecdotal serpent sightings, Mike, nothing personal. I think the track-hoe scares them off. The biggest hazard is bi-pedal and sapien.
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| We do raise hell with the rodent population. Hickory nuts 2 cm. |
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| Quartz 12 cm. - and somewhere a pissed rodent. |
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14430 Time(s) |
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Mike Wood
Joined: 16 Dec 2010
Posts: 456
Location: Northern England
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| Posted: Nov 24, 2013 16:30 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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"The biggest hazard is bi-pedal and sapien."
You're not wrong there Vic, I always keep an eyeout for bipedal animals when I'm out in the mountains.
Looking forward to seeing the cleaned harvest from your latest diggings, looks like fun to me; I like breaking rock too, though it's normally basalt rather than silicified dolomite.
Best regards,
Mike
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Pierre Joubert
Joined: 09 Mar 2012
Posts: 1605
Location: Western Cape
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| Posted: Nov 25, 2013 02:53 Post subject: Re: Collecting quartz on the Little Falls dolostone |
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Hi Vic. Thank you for your report. Some of those crystals are huge and remind me of 'window' quartz from Brandberg. I agree, doing this for a salary would not be worth it (although, sometimes it could be very profitable). The fun though, is hugely rewarding!!!
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Pierre Joubert
'The tree of silence bears the fruit of peace. ' |
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