FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[Bob Carnein]

I, also, went to some very well attended local shows recently; the dealers generally were pleased with the outcome. This may be a result of living in central Colorado, which was the focus of the recent "Prospectors" TV show.

With regard to collecting, it seems to me that one of the interesting things about the hobby is who collects what and why. I, personally, am not interested in the folks who spend thousands on aesthetic specimens and "build" collections over the short term (often with the help of "consultants"), only to dump them back on the market to make a profit. But, they're a part of the hobby, just like Philistine art collectors, for whom possession of something expensive and impressive is the only goal. On the other hand, having the money to buy superb specimens doesn't necessarily imply Philistinism--some of these folks are very serious and focused.

My experience with several local clubs over a long collecting "career" is that most collectors have very limited interest in the technical aspects of mineralogy, and their collections lack focus. They're more interested in the social aspects of the hobby than in the scientific value of their collections. Beyond that, generalizations are hard to make and unlikely to be accurate.

[Mark Ost]

I think it is not an either/ or dichotomy. There is a lot of room for all types of folks. Having a degree in geology (and being a working professional in the field) does lessen my appreciation of the aesthetic side of minerals. I do have specimens that are chiefly of technical interest but collecting fine aesthetic specimens taught me much that college did not. You can only put so much in a semester or three. Also, it put me in touch with those who know far more about the collection of minerals, the market, and mineralogy. True dedicated mineralogists are specialists in a very complex science but collectors bring much to the table also. I recall meeting a fossil collector in Florida once during a diving expedition. The entire story is hilarious but cannot be repeated here due to time and concern for correctness, if you catch my drift. Suffice it to say for one who did not have a formal education in the earth sciences, he had a superb knowledge of the practical side of finding fossils. In his realm, a good field man. Most geologists (myself included) are not going to risk going into the interior of Pakistan and finding a nice specimen. Heck I don't go anywhere unless there is an accessible bar nearby. It is a fact that most geologists, with any sense, (myself not included ) become project managers and risk dieing in their cubicles or office, if academics.

[Don Lum]

I agree with Mark. Different people have different reasons for collecting minerals. Also people may have different degrees of interest or limited time that they can spend on their interest. I say so what if a person is an aesthetic collector or a systematic collector. Is he not a collector? When I meet a collector or dealer or dealer/collector, I don't question what their motive is for collecting. I take everyone I meet at face value, no more, no less.

My undergraduate degree is in chemistry, mostly inorganic but also organic, biochemistry and physical chemistry. I also have a medical degree so most of my time, when I am not working, is spent reading the medical literature.

Collecting minerals is a diversion for me, my avocation. If a collector has time to study chemistry, crystallography, mineralogy, gemology, and geology then I say "fine and dandy," go for it.

It appears that some collectors I've read about have been interested in minerals while they were "in utero." :-) Not so with me. My interest began later in life.

In Max Ehrmann's poem, Desiderata, written in 1927, he writes:

"If you compare yourself with others you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself."

I think the same can be said of comparing mineral collections. I have seen mineral collections in museums, galleries and private homes. If my friend has what I consider is is a nice collection , I think to myself, he is more fortunate than I am or "Gee whiz, he has a fine collection."

Dave Wilber had an interesting comment in his presentation that I will include in my Third Annual Dallas Symposium Report regarding this subject.

Don

[John S. White]

Not sure that this has gotten off track or not. Originally, my introduction of this subject was simply a lament that so many collectors today appear to lack much intellectual curiosity about what the objects that they are collecting actually represent. It certainly was not meant to be a condemnation of those who can afford to collect very expensive aesthetic display-type specimens, even if many in this category probably qualify. As has been stated above, people collect for a variety of reasons, and I welcome them all to the hobby. There is always the possibility that at least some of those who seem indifferent to the science will become motivated at some point to look a little deeper at these extraordinary objects.

[Mark Ost]

Meant to say does "not" lessen my interest in aesthetics! I do not claim to be able to keyboard!

[Mark Ost]

Ah yes John
I see what you are saying. I agree, but can understand perhaps not having the time to take on a fairly complex skill set of basic mineralogy. That said I suspect many do have a curiosity but the world seems to move fast these days (faster as I get older) so it can be difficult to keep up, even though a couple of mineral guides do have good basic information in them such as Simon and Schuster's guide.

One thing I did notice during my time in academics was that many professors (not all) had lost a child like curiosity about the work. They were very competent but no longer inquisitive in a broad sense outside of their professional specialization.

Einstein once said there were many (most) in science who went into it for various reasons, as a living, to demonstrate their intellect, or as an exercise much like an athlete. "Should an angel of God descend and drive from the Temple of science all those who belong to the categorizes I have mentioned, I fear the Temple would be nearly emptied. But a few worshipers would still remain- some being from former times and some from ours. To the latter belongs our Planck and that is why we love him. Direct quote from AE!

[Riccardo Modanesi]

[Elise]

[Don Lum]

"If you compare yourself with others you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself."

My main point using this quote was to make an analogy of comparing one's mineral collection with that of another person's collection.

Don

[Mark Ost]

The internet is the worst place for that kind of somewhat non linear thinking (trying to be kind). Living in Virginia Beach, I am at the "Nexus of Nuts" for this mystical healing sort of thing. Edger Casey and the ARE (Association for "Research" {not quite as we know it} and Enlightenment). My sister in law works there and, though a fine person, is a chief proponent of magical thinking!

[Jacquou HO]

Hello,


The first thing that made me collect "mineral" was their BEAUTY, the very first time when I visited the museum, I admired only their beauty and did not care their provenance, chemical composition...

Then I am curious about what make them so nice,why some minerals have the same chemical elements but they do not have the same appearance...

" The tailor makes a man ? ", but not the mineral...So to me, somehow "mineral" is "mineralogy".

There are many "collectors", "sellers" do not write mineral composition on their label (me neither)...is their family, their provenance enough? Anyway, there are different ways to study.

I do not have enough acknowledge to understand everything concerning mineralogy, as a amateur I collect "mineral" beaucause it is a very "interesting" hobby and I do my way.

What bother me is that there are a few sellers who do not have enough acknowledge to transfer to buyers-collectors. To me, I do not buy only stone, but also the information concerning this stone...

Warm regards,

Tran

[John S. White]

Tran:

Dealers should put on their labels only the information that is unique to that specimen and cannot be obtained from a textbook, which primarily means provenance. The chemical composition is readily available from textbooks unless the specimen is atypical and is known to contain a significant variation in its chemistry, as in "Calcite, cobaltian." Most important are the locality details, because they cannot be recovered from a textbook if lost. And today more and more collectors are also insisting on getting additional information such as who collected the piece, and when it was collected, but the absence of these details on a label would not deter me from purchasing a specimen that I want for my collection,

Having to add the chemistry on the label for every specimen would put an unreasonable burden on the dealer and would open the door to a lot of mistakes because chemical formulas can be very complex and different references may present different versions of many of the formulas,

[Jacquou HO]

Hello,

Last summer, I visited a mineral museum (a club's collection) in Czech Republic.

In the show case, there were a very nice "ALMANDIN" garnet from pakistan. I was really curious and asked for further information as I has seen many garnets like this sold as "SPESSARTINE".

A person who works there replied that in any case, the label could not be wrong as it was marked by a geologist !

This garnet may be ALMANDIN, but her information was not so convinced...(to me).

The green garnet found in Iran/afghanistan border is always demantoid?...I trust the dealer when I buy the minerals, but sometime I disappointed about their information, anyway I do not have any equipment to analyse my minerals at home or how can I know the provenance marked in the label is true? As a young collector, I do not have so much experience - one of the reason why I am here :)

My idiot question is what is mineralogy in mineral collection?

Tran

[GneissWare]

"My idiot question is what is mineralogy in mineral collection?"

None of the issues you raised are wrong, so your question is not "idiot" ;=)

On the garnet front, all garnets are in solid solution meaning they are not pure end-member garnets. In most cases, "demantoid" (which is a green variety) is usually closer to end-member Andradite. The Iranian ones are Andradite and Grossular mixtures with more Grossular than Andradite. Unlike many demantoids, there is nearly no chromium present so the green is produced by iron.

Many times geologists and others have to guess at what the exact mineral is. For example, most people would consider garnets from skarns to be Grossular, and those in mica schists to be Almandine, as this is the most common type found in these environments. But without actual testing, you can't be certain. And, again, for example, a garnet in a mica schist may well be 80% Almandine, 15% Spessartine, and 5% something else. Most people are probably not putting this amount of detail on a label, as it would confuse the general public.

[Jacquou HO]

This subject is interesting to me as I have just collected minerals for few years.

So it is really verry little "mineralogy" if the dealers do not transfer enough information concerning the "mother rock".

I admire the people who collect minerals by themselves as they know exactly where and how their minerals found.