FMF - Friends of Minerals Forum, discussion and message board

[tchai]

I bought a large calcite specimen the other day at a gem show, which was sold to me as elmwood and sold to me at an unbelievably low price considering its size. i know that there has been stellar beam calcites from elsewhere being sold as “elmwood calcite” because the latter is oftentimes much more desirable (ex. i saw a mindat thread on a viburnum calcite being sold as elmwood) and was wondering if anyone well-versed in elmwood specimens would be able to tell if my piece was sold to me correctly or not if i posted a few pictures of it. (edit: not asking for exact locality if it’s not from elmwood, in case that’s unclear.)

[Tobi]

Your're right: If you provide some photos I 'm sure we could tell for sure if your calcite is from Elmwood or not for those calcites are quite distinctive. I think some here in this forum are among the well-versed people you mention and no calcite from Viburnum Trend District should fool us when the question is Elmwood or not ;-)

But no chance without some pictures ...

[tchai]

thank you for the quick reply! i felt the need to ask because i've seen some collector "newbies" post questions here that have been belittled by others. i've attached the photos. apologies for the quality - i'm using an iPhone 5 (the only camera i have access to). obviously not a perfect specimen and i won't be TOO disappointed if it turns out not to be elmwood - i think it's beautiful regardless and i'm very happy with it with the price i paid. if you'd like me to take more pictures of something specific, please let me know.

links i included showing similar growth on other elmwoods:

throwinstones (dot) com/products/12cm-golden-honey-calcite-crystal-twin-with-sphalerite-from-elmwood-tennessee-usa-17420

tigerowner (dot) com/nonfluorescents/elmwood/ELMER6102.JPG

edit: found another! instagram (dot) com/p/BAF6IzmJ3Ay/

[Bob Harman]

Other than being large in size, which many Elmwood calcites are, I don't see any characteristics of your calcite being from Elmwood Tennessee. The cloudy off white color is not right for most examples. The cloudy crystal with the rough surface of the crystal, is really not of any large Elmwood examples that I have seen. The large calcites always have very smooth crystal faces.
I also do not think your example is from the Viburnum Trend in Missouri (which you mentioned).
As to where it is from, maybe China, but I really don't know. I would be surprised to find out that it is from Elmwood. I have never seen anything remotely like that from that location.
But one caveat; besides being cleaved with a nibbed termination and no matrix, which doesn't help in ID,ing a locality, your example seems to have been briefly acid etched as the crystal edges are just a bit rounded. Sooooo maybe it is from Elmwood????? BOB

[Scot Krueger]

This calcite does not look to have the properties that make Elmwood calcite sell at a premium to other localities. It shows none of the clear deep golden color at the tips, mirror-like faces or razor-sharp edges. It is entirely possible that it is actually from the Elmwood mine, as there is a range of quality in calcites from any locality, but just being from the same locality does not imply it should be valued at a premium. I would be more concerned about how this specimen has been treated, especially since it sounds like none of it was made clear by the seller. With some common minerals, like quartz, if a crystal is badly handled and gets scratched or bruised it is common for disreputable dealers to just polish the faces to make them look "like new" again. But close examination will reveal that they have been polished because the faces no longer show the small natural defects of real crystal faces. Most collectors abhor such polishing to restore the appearance of pristine condition. In the case of calcite, however, this is a far less common practice because the crystals are so soft and cleavable that the odds are that you would do more damage than good in trying to "repair" the damage. The surfaces would be very difficult to make smooth without inducing cleavage fractures and possibly even cleaving off the terminations. In the case of your crystal it is clear that someone was not happy with the look of the crystal surface, probably because it had been scuffed and chipped, and decide to give the crystal an acid bath to dissolve away the outer surface. These do not look like any natural calcite surfaces I have encountered, and definitely not from any Elmwood pieces.

[tchai]

this comment makes me so sad. i will take much better care of this piece than whoever owned it last.

[Kevin Schofield]

[Tobi]

Hi Tchai, your question is already answered, and I have to agree with Bob, Scot and Kevin: Having some experience in Elmwood specimens, I have never seen a calcite like that from Elmwood. Sorry to confirm that :-(

[John Betts]

It does not look like from Elmwood Mine or China or Viburnum Trend, Mo.

The site that produced large transparent scalenohedral crystals of calcite that matches closest was the Tri-State District near Joplin, Missouri.

Mexico and Hardin County, Illinois are the next most likely candidates.

[tchai]

that's okay! i bought the piece because i liked how it looked and i didn't think i'd ever come across calcite this large for such a cheap price again. thank you everyone for your answers!!

[tchai]

in regards to locality... i did some research on what it might be. what are your opinions on gallatin county, montana? i'm mentioning this particular one because it's apparently known for "chevron" lines, which can be seen on this piece regardless of the acid treatment. i also saw some calcite from morocco that looked similar, but there wasn't a more specific locality than that. the specific one i saw was this: fossilera (dot) com/minerals/3-8-dogtooth-calcite-crystal-morocco--2

[Kevin Schofield]

[tchai]

i should mention that the pictures were taken under artificial lighting last night. the color is more yellow in natural lighting.

[Scott A. Miller]

In the close-up, I believe I see a spherule partially exposed in the base of the calcite, does anybody else see this! If I can figure out how to enter a photo, I will submit something very similar that I found in a Keokuk Geode in 1986. These are referred to as, Keokuk Glassy Carbon Spherules and are intimately connected to impact events!

[Tom Tucker]

I don't believe Red Cliff, Gallatin County, Montana calcite crystals are ever that large. They are often seriously weathered, and then then collector- enhanced with HCl.

[Bob Harman]

In looking over this older thread and comparing the pictured Calcite example to one posted in the "Ten Thousand Club" section in the "Prices Again" thread started by Louis Friend, March 23, 2012, I see a very similar large Calcite posted on March 25 2012 by Jean Sendero about 2/3 down on page 1 of that thread. His 13 cm example was from Mina Los Remedios Mine, Taxco Guerrero, Mexico.

Could that be the location of the Calcite pictured here?? Maybe..... Bob

[Jordi Fabre]